Calling all Taiho (大鳳) fans

[ajkochev]

Hi all! I'm redoing my Tamiya IJN Taiho kit I built last year with some IJN carrier photoetch and scratch built details. I've been able to find alot of details online but do not have plans. My question is what did the "wings" that stuck out on the rear of the flight deck really look like on the ship. I've seen several models and several are different but most go with the triangular platform. This seems a bit odd to me though as other carriers made later in the war had some intricate detail. Any info on anything about the Taiho is appreciated.




Taiho class kits (updated 9/3/2021)

1/700

1969 First Generation full hull version - Fujimi issued (predates the Waterline Consortium)

Taiho 1944 Kit #7S3 , motorized - see images below.


1972 Waterline Consortium, Second Generation � Tamiya issued

Taiho 1944 Item # 31211, WL kit #211


2010 Second Generation � Fujimi issued

Taiho 1944 Item# 431017, SWM (EX) � 42 (old, or initial release), wood planked flight deck, released November, 2010
Item# 431024, SWM (EX) �49, latex covered flight deck, released March, 2011
Item# 431017, SWM (EX) � 42 (new box art), wood planked flight deck, released April, 2011
Item# 431055, FH-18 - , latex covered flight deck, full hull, released October, 2011
Item# 470160, EASY(EX) � 17, colored sticker for wood planked flight deck and boats, released April, 2016
Item# 431598, SWM (EX) � SP-61, wood planked flight deck, DX version with full PE, released May, 2017
Item# 431604, SWM (EX) � SP-62, latex covered flight deck, DX version with full PE, released May, 2017
Item# 432175, SWM (EX) � 21, both the wood planked and latex covered flight deck options included, released June, 2018


1/350

2021 Very Fire issued (November 2021 In-Box review by Dan Kaplan here: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... 0Taiho.htm )

Item# BELBV350901/BELBV350901DX -Basic and deluxe (with full PE), released August, 2021


Taiho Gallery Entries (updated 9/3/2021)

1/700
The Fujimi kit built by Christoph Mentzel with wood deck stick and PE: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... ho-700-cm/
The Tamiya kit by Anthony Kochevar: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Another Tamiya kit by William Zammit: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
A rare Fujimi first generation kit build by Paul Helfrich: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Taiho (F) by Chris Popielarek: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Taiho (T) by Erick Navas: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... -main.html
Taiho (T) by An Chu: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Taiho (F) by Dan Kaplan: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Taiho (T) by Vlad Cimpan, W-I-P thread, completed: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=327973

[Dan K]

Miyukikai plan set indicates partial mesh netting (like most other classes) and not solid. Solid is a reflection of the injection molding technology of 25 years ago.

The shape of the extension resembles that of the Unryu class. For my unfinished version of Taiho, I used the the PitRoad PE for Unryu that has those platforms with mesh netting.

[ajkochev]

Thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to seeing your model of this ship. I'm always amazed at all your models and you and a few others on the site really have inspired me in my modeling on IJN ships. I'll try and post some pictures here of how it is comming along.

[Dan K]

Thx. It might be a while before its finished. Its been on hold for 3 years. All I did was the flight deck, though its complete up thru painting.

Would love to see your stuff.

[Dan K]

Here's a link to an excellent build of Taiho. This might be the same model featured in the Navy Yard Special #4

http://www.geocities.jp/kyouteimiyajima/houou.html

[ajkochev]

Thanks for the photos. I'm working on getting mine posted somehow. I have another question though. What about the aft aircraft elevator? Was it really the odd shape and off center on the deck? Some models have it looking like this and some have a centered and symetrical looking one.

[Dan K]

According to Hara Shobo ships plans for Taiho, and from Miyukikai, the aft elevator is actually symetrical, not asymetrical as the Tamiya model has it. I've changed mine accordingly.

If you can find Gakken #22, it would be a good guide.

[Dan K]

It is off center, though.

[bendix]

Miyukikai plan set indicates partial mesh netting (like most other classes) and not solid. Solid is a reflection of the injection molding technology of 25 years ago.

The shape of the extension resembles that of the Unryu class. I my unfinished version of Taiho, I used the the PitRoad PE for Unryu that has those platforms with mesh netting.

How is that Solid? a reflection of the injection molding technology??



_________________
Rapid Manufacturing

[MartinJQuinn]

Miyukikai plan set indicates partial mesh netting (like most other classes) and not solid. Solid is a reflection of the injection molding technology of 25 years ago.

The shape of the extension resembles that of the Unryu class. I my unfinished version of Taiho, I used the the PitRoad PE for Unryu that has those platforms with mesh netting.

How is that Solid? a reflection of the injection molding technology??

_________________
Rapid Manufacturing

I think what Dan meant was that 25 years ago, all they could do was mold the part solid, and not duplicate the mesh netting.

[Dan K]

Correct. Thx, Marty

For the longest time, I've been planning to update here with two links from the J-Shipboard about what appears to be reasonable proof of the longstanding rumors of Taiho having been equipped a std. wooden flight deck over the armor plating. Will have to discuss at anothr time but read, in order:

1) http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=4730.0

and then
2) http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=5883.0

keep in mind that Lars Ahlberg is the author of the 2 Profile Morskie books on Taiho.

[PeterE]

Dan,
Which of the two profile morskie represents more bang for the buck? is 41 the one to own? or do you have to have both? what's different about them? Thanks in advance. And if you have seen the AJ Press your comments would be most welcome.

[Dan K]

I have both and they are meant to be complimentary to each other. Vol 1 starts with both Taiho's design and equipment, and also explains these facets within the larger context of IJN carrier design and growth. Vol 2 continues with equipment and moves on to Taiho's operational history. Alos included is a section on the improved Taiho design.

Both volumes have excellent photos and drawings, as well as some excellent color 3D CG drawings in multiple perspectives. Vol2 does footnote the emergence of information regarding Taiho's now alleged wooden covered deck (the new information came out during the writing of vol2 and, while I think Lars Ahlberg has come to believe it, I don't think Hans Lengerer does, so, it's acknowedged but not "accepted") along with two color 3DCG plates showing possible examples the wooden deck.

Both volumes are in both Polish and English, which is very helpful. Vol 2 is the larger volume. It's hard to say whether one could be had withou the other as it was meant to be a set. If I had to choose only one, I suppose it might be vol 2.

[PeterE]

Thanks Dan

Well, you've mentioned the one issue I am currently grapling with, whether the deck was wooden or not. I have the Gakken 22 book and it sure does not help. *all* the deck pictures in that book are of the Junyo, not Taiho's. Junyo's is of course wooden.

I refuse to use the model shown in the Gakken book as a reference, as good as it is, nothing replaces either an official source or even better a genuine photograph, which may never come out

[Dan K]

Well, if you follow the links posted a bit earlier in this thread to the J-Ship discussions on Taiho's deck, you'll see the photo cited. The 2nd thread has a more in depth discussion and, I have to say, I am pretty much sold on it at this point. ALso, the Miyukikai plan set is based on actual IJN plans (according to the the gentleman who drafted it), and it shows wood planking, so...............

[Dan K]

Well, the new Fujimi 1/700 Taiho is released and enroute. It will be fascinating to compare to the Tamiya kit. Word from Japan is that the deck has been scribed with wood planking (as it probably should be), with a latex covered deck decal to be released later on.

So now, what to do with the completed deck and worked hull of my Tamiya Taiho project (actually the 4th one over the years?) It's been on hold for 6+ years now. It may end up needing a new home

[MartinJQuinn]

I saw finish it, then build the newer kit at a later date. Be interesting to compare the two completed models.

[Gernot]

After speaking about the Taiho kit with my contact at a Tokyo hobby shop, he mentioned that the initial test shots had a metal deck, and the wooden deck was already planned as an after-market part (it should come out soon); so the expectation was that this way all could be satisfied: those who thought the deck to be metal, and those who thought it should be wood. Well, the final molds have it in wood, so the first option is now flushed down the drain, sadly. What a pity!

As it stands, apparently the couple of shots of Taiho are at such an angle to the deck that it is hard to conclude one way or the other what the deck is made of; and the alleged photo of the carrier's airgroup in a group photo on a wooden deck is not proven to be taken on Taiho---if corroborating evidence of that could be obtained it would be nice.

Anyone know how deep the wreck might be?

Cheers,
Gernot

[Dan K]

I feel pretty confident about the presented evidence for Taiho's wood deck covering. The photo in question (below) depicts two officers who did serve together on Taiho. Of these, Lt. Tanaka died aboard her whilst Lt. Yamauchi survived with only the clothes on his back (and this photo in his pocket). Further, the aircraft in the background has a tail shape and numbers that match one of the 9 D3A2s from the 601 Kokutai aboard the 3 CarDiv 1 carriers. Also, that cross deck white stripe marking is pretty much narrowed to Taiho in Spring 1944. The photo was dated 6-6-1944.

Lars Ahlsberg subsequently did correspond with a Taiho survivor who says the deck was covered with planking. Also, that the deck was subsequently painted black at Tawi Tawi

[Dan K]

Some Pros on the new Fujimi 1/700 Taiho:

As Marty put it, the hull is gorgeous and very similar at first glance to that of the Illustrious class. Measurement-wise, it comes to 372mm, which scales out to 260.4m, vs. the actual OA length of 260.2m. That�s pretty damn close for this scale. The appearance closely follows Taiho�s as illustrated in the revised Miyukikai plan set, the two Taiho companion Profile Morski volumes, and as pictured by the beautiful 1/500 scale models featured in Gakken volume #22 (on Shinano and Taiho). and #45. Not exactly the same but 99% so.

For anyone familiar with the Tamiya kit, this hull has less angular transitions into the enclosed bow and the various hull bulges. Also, the kit has been accurately molded with many more hull openings at the bow, even including an anchor/windlass deck. Fittings like hatchways on the hull or more sharply molded then what I expected (based on the softness of the same on the 1/350 Fujimi Shokaku), which is also very nice.

The hull finish is very nice and there are no hull plating lines, a move that I appreciate as I feel that this aspect is vastly overdone in 1/700. The portholes do have barely visible eyebrows. Even more astute is the lack of an external degaussing cable. By 1943, Japanese capital ships under construction or major repair (Oyodo, the Unryu class CVs, Isuzu, etc.) have either omitted, or internalized, the cable. It makes perfect sense for Taiho to have done the same. The first photo below was a quick snap of the bow with flight deck laid on top.


Overall, the flight deck is a thing of beauty. Contrary to previous notions perpetuated by the Tamiya kit, Taiho�s armor plating was almost certainly covered by wood planking, just as all IJN carriers were designed. The planking is finely rendered and barely recessed. Embeded are row upon row of subtle aircraft tie-downs and nicely scaled treaded metal plating ringing the flight deck. No molded on arrestor cables or crash barriers.

Unexpected for me is the inclusion of separately molded, tiny, hooded deck lights that typically ring a Japanese flight deck for use during potential night ops. This is a very impressive addition as no other Japanese kit maker has ever included these. I don�t know if the new Fujimi Akagi and Ryujo have these, but it certainly raised the bar for the pending new Fujimi 1/700 Shokaku.

All the AA sponson and sponson supports are molded separately. All the sponsons have tiny triangular support plates underneath.

The 10cm weapons are molded in several pieces and have a much closer appearance to the actual weapon then those previously seen on the Tamiya Taiho or older Fujimi Oyodo. It remains to be seen how well they go together and appear assembled.

The island is about �� longer than that of the older Tamiya kit. Detail is much improved and more subtle than on the Taiho kit.

Six clear aircraft were included but, I have yet to really spend any time checking them out.

There is a dedicated PE set for the Taiho from Fujimi. Mine arrived last nite, after my lunch with Marty. Again, unexpectedly, I have to say, it�s really, really good, and very complete. A lot of smart offerings are included, such as one piece netting for the aft end of the flight deck, two types of railings, landing lights, and some very nicely detailed radars. I am impressed by this fret.

Time is tight but I will try to get to my concerns soon, along with photos. Basically, there are two issues with the elevator/apertures, and with the bridge.