Question on brush painting with tamiya or Gunze.

[Bruno Gillet]

Hi,

For my models I mostly use an airbrush with either of Tamiya or Gunze acrylic paints. Anyway, there is still the need to make some work with standard brush (details, little parts, etc...).
I am asking myself of the best way to do that...

Using the paint as is, gives poor results as it is too thick.

If I mix a little water in it, then I have to put two or three layers for having a correct color coverage. Also, I noticed that water dilution range of Tamiya paints is somewhat "ON/OFF", with either "thick paint" or "ultra-thin coverage" and quite nothing in the between...

If I mix it with alcohol (as I do for airbrush painting with success), then the paint have a rough structure that waste the job.

On the other side, I have no trouble at all working with prince august (aka. vallejo) acrylic paint in one slightly diluted layer. But then matching the target color is a bit of a nightmare...

So, any better way to have correct and efficient hand brush painting with Tamiya acrylics ?

Bruno.

[Commodore Rob]

my personal view is Tamiya acrylics are easily the worst I have ever used but thats just my opinion I only use Vellejo these days they have the colour range and also the airbrush set which you can match with the colour range.

[johndon]

I have huge problems brushing with Tamiya acrylics as well although I use them exclusively for airbrushing so therefore try to spray everything.

If I have to brush paint them (and even then I'll only do it for vary small touchups), I mix with a little of Tamiya's own acrylic thinner.

John

[Edward Pinniger]

I use Tamiya acrylics a lot for brush painting - I use Revell acrylics (fairly similar to Vallejo in consistency/coverage) where possible, but their colour range is very limited.

I've also found that diluting Tamiya paints with water causes problems (if you add too much, the paint will become "chalky" and lose its durability) - but I find methylated spirits work well instead (haven't tried using alcohol).

The one advantage of Tamiya paints is that most large hobby shops stock them - I don't know any local hobby shops which stock Vallejo paints, and ordering paints mail-order can be expensive and a bit impractical.

[Karsten]

I have used Tamiya paints for years fior both Airbrushing and Paint brush work.

I have never had a problem thinning it but I have always used Tamiya's Thinner. I buy it in the 250 ML bottle and keep a couple on hand.

Depending on how much touch up or what you are painting you may want to get some small plastic mixing trays at the local craft store and put a couple drops of straight thinner into one mixing spot and dip your brush directly into the thinner and then your paint.

Karsten

[les]

I use Tamiya and have found that it's always best to prime first. The paint is much easier to work with. I use thin coats out of the bottle.

[Bruno Gillet]

OK, so ,first : thanks all for your replies.

Second, it seems that to acheive correct brush painting with Tamiya stuff you need to use their outrageous costly solvant... Perhaps should I give it a try after all...

About Vallejo (or prince august), yep, their classic acrylic range is probably the best for brush painting. I use them extensively for weathering and details, but then, the color match with airbrushed background is far being easy, especially when doing unavoidable details or rectifications. On the other hand I tried (long ago, as it just appeared) their airbrush line. I was really disapointed as the paint do not stick enough on models. Have they changed their formula ?

It seems that there are no real ways to improve current efficiency in the way I brush paint details : still go thru your 2 or 3 thin layers... It's long, and for real small details not always easy (doing them 3 times means risking some overflow 3 times more...).
Or to use vallejo when color match is not to difficult to reach...

At least, I know I am not totally alone with that constraint...

Bruno.

[Richard Durham]

Bruno, some model paints are solvent based and this includes all enamels and some acrylics. The solvent based acrylic paints generally use alcohol as a base and include Gunze and Tamiya Acrylic paints. These are great paints for air brushing, but not very good for brush or hand painting. The reason for the problem is that the solvent in the second paint coat eats into the first dried paint coat and results in an uneven paint job.

Some acrylic paints such as Vallejo Model Air and ModelMaster Acryl paints are water bases and behave much like latex paints in that once the applied paint coat is dry, paint based solvents will not affect it. This means that you can easily apply multiple thin coats with a brush and the subsequent coats will not eat into or dissolve the previous paint layers. Vallejo and ModelMaster Acrylic do not spray all that well and have poor adhesion qualities, but the ability to hand paint them far outweighs the concern about spraying and adhesion. With all this said, consider trying this approach for painting a ship.

1. Lightly prime the ship model with a mix of Gunze 324 Light Gray, Gunze Leveling Thinner and Tamiya Gloss using a 2:2:1 ratio. You can substitute Tamiya Sky Gray for the Gunze Gray. This takes care of any adhesion problems associated with water based paints.

2. I build and paint ships in layers, generally building and painting the deck and hull before adding the super structure. I try to build and paint each layer of the super structure before adding it to the ship. If the ship has a wood deck, I will spray paint the wood deck color using a Model Master Acryl paint mix. I even paint the super structure of the model with this color. It is important to seal the Gunze primer with the ModelMaster Acryl Paint before trying to hand paint. I then mask and apply the hull color. I will then apply the supper structure color using masking and an air brush or hand brush for small details. Once the first layer of ModelMaster Acryl paint is on the model, it is easy to brush paint over it. Thin the ModelMaster Acryl paint about 30 percent with their thinner before brush painting and count on the need to use 2 to 4 thin layers for coverage.

ModelMaster Acryl has a Marine Paint line that has a good selection of fairly accurate colors. It was rumored that Testors was going to stop making the Marine Color line, but I see no indications that the rumor is true. I use the Acryl Thinner for thinning as it works better than water. I do the initial clean up using a mix of window cleaner and water and then do the final clean up with Acryl Cleaner. Once the Acryl is dry, it is not easily removed, so you should never let it dry on your brush or in your airbrush. Once fully dry, it can only be removed with lacquer thinner�never never apply lacquer thinner to plastic. It does not air brush very well, but it is the cat�s meow for hand brushing and the Marine Colors are great.

Vallejo Model Air has most of the same advantages and disadvantages of Acryl. However, the pigment density seems lower so more coats are required for coverage. Also, they have no naval colors.
Rich

[Seasick]

The surface of the model being painted needs to be clean when you paint it with acyrilic. A rag damp with denatured alcohol gets any oily film off a resin or polystyrene models. Prime it with spray primer let it sit for a day or two then start painting with thin layers. I have never had problems brushing acyrilics from Tamiya or Modelmasters. Gunze-sangyo bruses acceptably but I have stopped buying it because the only store in the region I know of that sells it has closed. The Tamiya acyrilics need to be mixed very vigorously to brush properly.

[Bruno Gillet]

Hi Richard,

Bruno, some model paints are solvent based and this includes all enamels and some acrylics. The solvent based acrylic paints generally use alcohol as a base and include Gunze and Tamiya Acrylic paints. These are great paints for air brushing, but not very good for brush or hand painting. The reason for the problem is that the solvent in the second paint coat eats into the first dried paint coat and results in an uneven paint job.

That is logical. I knew that with oil washes that where not to be done on enamels directly. It have to be protected with a future or so thin layer first, that also ease wash fluidity. I had not think to make the picture with tamiya or gunze paints. Thanks for the info.

About the way to procede (hull first, then superstrucures) I do same as you. First hull and deck, assembly and painting. Then I build superstructures as far as possible in separate sub-assembly focusing ease of painting that come next. Last steps are final assembly and detailing. When I need to brushpaint, it is mainly at the end of the first and third steps. At those moments, numerous details have to be completed, that are a nightmare to mask. I think I will try to isolate the first paint layer with a mate varnish first. As mate, I noticed it could be painted somewhat easily, and I suppose it protects underlying layers from solvants. By sealing them with future prior to weathering, and finally with the concluding varnish it should be fine... I have completed paint of my BB-56 washington, so I am now in the final steps for most of it (sea base, PE railing, ...) but I think I will try it on my IJN ISE, next to come.

I will let you know.

Thanks anyway for your explanations.

Bruno.

[Peter Van Buren]

Tamiya acrylics do bursh paint poorly but here are some things that might help:

1) Prime, almost anything helps. I use Mr. Surfacer or Tamiya Primer.

2) Thin the acrylic paint using Tamiya's own thinner. In the US at least it costs a few dollars for a big bottle, a small price compared to over $100 for a battleship kit or more for resin.

3) Keep your brush wet with thinner.

4) Apply one stroke and do not brush over the paint. This will leave brush strokes.

5) Accept that you will need several thin coats and avoid one thick coat.

6) Overcoat with a flat spray.