Calling all USS Tullibee SSN 597 fans

[Woodstock74]

Seemed appropriate. The sub of firsts for the USN...bow mounted spherical and angled mid-ship torpedo tubes. An interesting little (smallest fast attack nuke in USN too from what I can tell) that not much is said about (along with the Narwhal 671 and Glenard P. Lipscomb 685), which is a shame. I'm by no stretch an expert, in fact I hope to be very much enlightened by you lot!

[Nino]

That is another Sub model I have on my wish list. Missed an ebay offering awhile back. Seller did not know it was Tullibee.
These one-of-a-kind Boats and Special project Subs are tough to model. I hope someone mentions a kit that can be converted to be SSN-597.

Speaking of Special...
I have a pet project of making a nice SSN-575 SP. I'm told the easiest way is to depict it is in Dry Dock with a tarp over the "52" foot section.

Nino

[Woodstock74]

That is another Sub model I have on my wish list. Missed an ebay offering awhile back. Seller did not know it was Tullibee.
These one-of-a-kind Boats and Special project Subs are tough to model. I hope someone mentions a kit that can be converted to be SSN-597.

Speaking of Special...
I have a pet project of making a nice SSN-575 SP. I'm told the easiest way is to depict it is in Dry Dock with a tarp over the "52" foot section.

Nino

Flankerman over on Britmodeller did one out of two Mikro-Mir Nautilus kits and some speculation. Looked like a fun build, but add it to the list of projects.

[Woodstock74]

That is another Sub model I have on my wish list. Missed an ebay offering awhile back. Seller did not know it was Tullibee.
These one-of-a-kind Boats and Special project Subs are tough to model. I hope someone mentions a kit that can be converted to be SSN-597.
Nino

I think there was a 1/200 scale Tullibee kicking about at one point? No idea who kitted it...Google here we go...

[Tom Dougherty]

The 1;200 scale Tullibee (SSN 597) was a Fisher Model & Pattern, which are out of business. They were located in Paradise, Ca., and lost their home and workshop in the fire last year that raged through there. They only produced submarine models for a short while back in the mid-1990's. For several tens of minutes, there was a 1/350 scale version by Yankee Modelworks on the market. That one is partially completed on my workbench. I wanted to do early & late versions (configuration changed over time, especially the PUFFS installations), but it disappeared very quickly before I could buy a second kit. Possibly Blue Ridge has the 1/350 mold, as they acquired the YKM line of resin submarine molds. A few years back, Blue Ridge did plan to reissue them with improvements and their smoother resin, but I don't know what happened to that plan.

Tullibee (SSN 597) was a one off attempt at a small, nuclear powered "killer" submarine SSKN. She had the first bow sonar installation with torpedo tubes move back, and a turboelectric drive that used the reactor steam to drive a large set of turbogenerators, which power a large DC electric motor to drive the ship. This was an effort to reduce the noise of steam turbine drive. Technically she was a bit of a chronic problem and was known as Building 597 at Electric Boat because of her frequent visits to work on problems.

The Navy instead incorporated elements from Tullibee into the Thresher/Permit SSN class and decided not to field a separate class of SSKNs. Silencing of steam turbines was accomplished instead by rafting the machinery spaces to isolate them from the hull and reduce noice and vibration transmission through the hull. So, Tullibee ended up as a "one-off" experiment in small nuclear attack submarines. The turboelectric drive was repeated in the Glenard P. Lipscomb (SSN 685), a modified Sturgeon class. That also had issues with the DC electric drive.

At one point, the Virginia class was supposed to have an electric drive in the later blocks. Don't know if that will happen The Columbia SSBN class are supposed to be equipped with electric drive as well. I believe these are the smaller AC vs. the heavier DC motors of Tullibee and Lipscomb.

[Nino]

Re: "...Technically she was a bit of a chronic problem and was known as Building 597 at Electric Boat ..."
I recall Seawolf was "docked" allot too.

Tullibee looks like a basic hull shape and might be easy to scratch together other than the fairwater behind the sail. I have a bunch of un-built Sub kits and multiples of several classes. Since I'm in Philly. and we expect to barely make "yellow" to open whatever stores that are left, I bet I have plenty of time to work out a scale hull for a Tullibee. If my extra plastic hulls don't work, there's always Bounty towels cardboard roll.

Anybody got a nice Plan? With deck details?

Nino

[Woodstock74]

Here are a couple I've come across:

High res (forum doesn't seem to automatically reduce the image size to a common frame):

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/models/S ... ROPPED.jpg

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/models/S ... -Model.png

[Nino]

Thanks. Nice drawing, even has 2 of the puff arrays. That's sure a start.
I have a low quality drawing of the sail and fairwater but I need my 4.0 Diopter glasses for that. Your 2nd link is EXCELLENT! Great drawing of the deck.

Ken Hart's model of Tullibee is what initially got me interested.

Nino

My little drawing...

[Tom Dougherty]

Before anyone becomes too enamored of the above posted drawing of Tullibee two posts back, let me disabuse you of the notion that it is anywhere near accurate. The dimensions are way off. The length is too short, the beam too wide and the stern is the wrong shape. Other than that, it is great. You could use it to make a great model of.... something. The second, linked only drawing is far more correct in dimensions.

Here is a dimensionally correct drawing of Tullibee with less beam and more length. The nose cone is hemispherical rather than the later more streamlined bow caps.
Also, attached is a photo of the 1/350 Tullibee under construction on my model desk.

Click the small photos below to enlarge.

[Woodstock74]

Mikro Mir announced USS Tullibee in 1/350! Sprue shots on FB. At work at the moment, will link later if no one else has.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/mikro.mir.dnep ... 104916498/

[Tom Dougherty]

Heard about this a week or so ago. Looking at the parts photo, I am just a bit concerned about the bow shape. Tullibee had a characteristic rounded, hemispheric bow with no real gradual elliptical taper. It was blunt. See photo of my model. At least from the photo of thee kit parts, the bow looks to be closer to a Sturgeon elliptical shaped bow shape, with more of a gradual taper. We�ll see when the kit emerges.

I do appreciate that Mikromir is producing an array of submarine models.

[ssn705]

Wow, out of left field. Pretty exciting though. I think this is a very interesting topic. Mikro-Mir has been taking a lot of my money recently. I wonder how they choose their topics.

Agree the view shape looks off based on what I have read, but I don't know if I have ever seen an accurate drawing of her anyway specifically because of the bow. Or maybe what has been written is wrong and one of the drawings is actually right.

Tom, love the fleet boat conversion in the background of your Tullibee shot.

Cheers,

Dave

[Tom Dougherty]

Dave,
So here�s the best view I know of Tullibee�s bow.
http://navsource.org/archives/08/591/0859719.jpg
I know it�s at an angle, but the hemispheric, more blunt shape of the bow is evident.

I just ordered a MicroMir Tullibee kit from the Ukraine. Not a lot of sources in the US for MicroMir kits.

Thanks for the comment on the fleet boat Guppy conversion. It�s a Yankee ModelWorks Guppy ll kit in resin I bought years ago. It was on the market for several tens of minutes. I did some modifications (added the bow chin sonar). It�s virtually complete except for a few items, but I put it on hold in February while 1.) I finished work on my last molecular biology project and retired from Harvard Medical School. 2.) completed a build of a resin model of the K-129 Golf ll sub for David Sharp, senior director on board the Glomar Explorer, and 3.) drove cross country with my son after his M.Sc. at Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Ca. to Patuxent River Naval Test Center in Maryland for his new position with Flight Test.

Now I will finish the Guppy ll. I also have a YMW resin kit of Clamagore in her Guppy lll configuration, complete with 3 PUFFS. Last year I took 100�s of photos of Clamagore while visiting in South Carolina. The PUFFS have some interesting features that need to be taken into consideration when I build the model.

I hope I now have the time to relax and build.
Tom

[ssn705]

I haven't gotten any work done because I was on deployment and then on a second one. Hope to finish my first boat (705) shortly though.

I did finish TIRU as the first GIII earlier this year though.

Great pic. I would certainly say that leans towards hemispherical.

Might just be a matter of the hull necking down a little to the hemisphere. It might be a matter of moving the seam to visually fake it.

Congrats to your son and to you on your retirement.

Dave

[Woodstock74]

Do we have any insight regarding Tullibee's screw? Is it safe to assume similar to Sturgeon? Or more like the small diameter Narwhal?

[Tom Dougherty]

Mike,
When I completed my Tullibee model a couple of weeks ago:
(Posted here: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
I put one of your 3D printed, five bladed screws on the model, as it was early �as built� Tullibee. The contemporary Skipjack class all initially had five blade �speed� screws, so I reasoned, in light of the few photos available, none of the stern, that Tullibee originally had a five blade screw as well. Thresher was also initially equipped with a five blade screw, as were the early Polaris boats.

As time went on, all were retrofitted with the seven blade skew back screw. This greatly finished low frequency blade rate noise from the propeller. SOSUS had tipped off the Navy that low frequency blade rate noise carried for quite a distance in the deep sound channel. During its first deployment, George Washington, SSBN598, had a five blade screw. SOSUS tracked it from the US to Holy Loch, Scotland.

So, the five blade screw made the most sense to me for a submarine that went to sea in 1960. I should mention that the 3D printed version that you make is much superior to the photo etch version that comes with the kit. Same goes for your other printed propellers.

[Vepr157]

Your instincts were right Tom, the Tullibee originally did have a 5-bladed propeller. This report has the original propeller designs for the Thresher, Tullibee, and Permit (SSGN 594):

https://dome.mit.edu/handle/1721.3/48952

I suspect the scaling of these propellers was a factor of 16.667, which would make the Tullibee's propeller 12'9" in diameter.

Jacob

[Woodstock74]

Mike,
When I completed my Tullibee model a couple of weeks ago:
(Posted here: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
I put one of your 3D printed, five bladed screws on the model, as it was early �as built� Tullibee. The contemporary Skipjack class all initially had five blade �speed� screws, so I reasoned, in light of the few photos available, none of the stern, that Tullibee originally had a five blade screw as well. Thresher was also initially equipped with a five blade screw, as were the early Polaris boats.

As time went on, all were retrofitted with the seven blade skew back screw. This greatly finished low frequency blade rate noise from the propeller. SOSUS had tipped off the Navy that low frequency blade rate noise carried for quite a distance in the deep sound channel. During its first deployment, George Washington, SSBN598, had a five blade screw. SOSUS tracked it from the US to Holy Loch, Scotland.

So, the five blade screw made the most sense to me for a submarine that went to sea in 1960. I should mention that the 3D printed version that you make is much superior to the photo etch version that comes with the kit. Same goes for your other printed propellers.

Cool, looking good Tom! So all of this has motivated me to look at Tullibee screws and I put the Mikro-Mir hull together last night and will print this evening (hopefully) what I drew up last night. The screw boss diameter looks to be a little smaller for the Tullibee, hence one of the reasons why I've decided to go the bespoke route. Initially I was hoping I could just repurpose the Thresher 5-blade, but there appears to be about a .6 mm diameter difference between the two. The other was that I suspected the blade diameter might be slightly smaller and Vepr has confirmed that for the 5-blade (my first hit at it I just went with 12.5' for the 5-blade). Though that brings us to the 7-blade that we assumed the Tullibee eventually had; is it safe to assume its diameter was similar to Thresher/Sturgeon's 7-blade?

[Tom Dougherty]

Thanks, Mike. Yes the five bladed screw looks excellent, even if a little oversized. The original kit came with both 5 & 7 blade photo etch screws, the standard with the Yankee ModelWorks kits of the early 2000�s. As I mentioned, I also added photo etch grates on the bottom, as the kit had no blast tank openings, just a smooth hull.

I would comment that the MikroMir Tullibee, which I have, seems to have more of an elliptical bow rather than the hemispheric shape on Tullibee . Also, the stern should taper more abruptly near the rudder and sternplanes; Tullibee had a constant diameter hull for most of its length. Unfortunately, these are not easily fixed on the MikroMir kit, you would have to pretty much redo the hull. Major & difficult plastic surgery, with lots of putty and measurements to get the hull rounded off. See the diagram of Tullibee above. So, just assemble the kit and enjoy.

Note to all. Mike is producing an outstanding set of 3D printed propellers of several designs. Much superior to photo etch or some of the plastic ones that come with kits (looking at you, MikroMir).

[Woodstock74]

Thanks, Mike. Yes the five bladed screw looks excellent, even if a little oversized. The original kit came with both 5 & 7 blade photo etch screws, the standard with the Yankee ModelWorks kits of the early 2000�s. As I mentioned, I also added photo etch grates on the bottom, as the kit had no blast tank openings, just a smooth hull.

I would comment that the MikroMir Tullibee, which I have, seems to have more of an elliptical bow rather than the hemispheric shape on Tullibee . Also, the stern should taper more abruptly near the rudder and sternplanes; Tullibee had a constant diameter hull for most of its length. Unfortunately, these are not easily fixed on the MikroMir kit, you would have to pretty much redo the hull. Major & difficult plastic surgery, with lots of putty and measurements to get the hull rounded off. See the diagram of Tullibee above. So, just assemble the kit and enjoy.

Note to all. Mike is producing an outstanding set of 3D printed propellers of several designs. Much superior to photo etch or some of the plastic ones that come with kits (looking at you, MikroMir).

All of that might be easy enough to draw and print...and with the hull assembled I can have a better gander at that...I see what you're seeing in the bow and I was looking at that last night as I put her together. We should chat about this some more.

And thanks again for the plug! I purchased a new printer (larger Mono X) about 3 months ago but haven't seen to find time to work it in. At some point I want to be able to offer my Nacken and Ula for sale at reasonable prices (that's the primary reason I haven't offered the Nacken up to Shapeways). Anyhow, hopefully I'll stop being intimidated by the Mono X (it was the same with the Photon, bought it and then looked at it for like 4 months) and get into it and get back to sub stuff (on a 1/35 armor what-if tangent at the moment) as I'm working up Nautilus, and now Tullibee, and have the Alrosa pumpjet to still finish up and release.