Calling all German Pre-Dreadnought fans

ChrisC · Post by **ChrisC** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:14 pm

So with the buzz lately surrounding kits of French pre-dreadnoughts I am curious if anyone out there is a fan of German pre-dreadnoughts. So let's hear it for those Wittelsbachs and brothers!

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Available German Pre-Dreadnoughts
Brandenburg Class
Combrig 1/700 SMS Brandenburg, Kurfurst Friedrich Wilhelm, Weissenburg

Wittelsbach Class
HP 1/700 SMS Zahringen, Schwaben, Mecklenburg

Braunschweig Class
HP 1/700 SMS Braunschweig, Elsass, Lothringen

Deutschland Class
WSW 1/700 SMS Schleswig-Holstein (World War II fit)

German Pre-Dreadnoughts in the Gallery

1/700 SMS Weissenburg (Combrig) by Bob Cicconi

Also, over on Modellmarine.de is a 1/700 SMS Zaehringen (HP) by Frank Spahr

NucSub · Post by **NucSub** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:11 am

Have always liked predreadnoughts.
Simple mechanical beasts with old school functionality.
The always look good whether in as built or near end of their life with many modifications.
Also, they were considered expendable in WW1 giving them very interesting histories. Dardanelles.
The German Deutschlands were at Jutland, modified and served until sunk in late WW2.

Gunner59 · Post by **Gunner59** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:16 am

I'm going to get one of those 1/200th scale card (paper) kits and have a go of it. The worst it will be is $25 lost. At best it will make a fair model of a pre-dreadnought class German battleship.

G. Shoda · Post by **G. Shoda** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:44 pm

My preference is the predreadnought classes with 9 inch main armament. They were inadequately armed but were fine looking ships. Haven't seen any models of these ships (not counting the coast defense ship Beowulf). There are nice kits of predreadnoughts with larger main guns such as Brandenburg und Schleswig-Holstein.

Good luck, Gunner59!

Avery Boyer · Post by **Avery Boyer** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:07 pm

I want the GPM Schleswig Holstein kit (1/200 Card) Any ideas on where I can pick it up in the US or Canada. Can anyone reccomend The Hobby Factory? TIA

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:52 am

I had a disaster with a 1/700 Schleswig-Holstein. At least I have since scrapped her and various parts went into other projects.

I plan to redo S-H in WW2 guise, plus a pre-WW1 Hessen and a Ww1 Deutschland class.

Not sure when I will fit all that in.

Useful books to have include Burt and the Vom zum Original Modeln series.

Cheers,

Rob Kernaghan

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:55 am

On of my 'slow' projects is turning a 1/250 paper Brandenburg into a 1/350 plastic Weissenburg using as much parts as possible from an ICM Konig and its WEM set. I ran out of patience with the ICM kits parts fit so I decided to make my life more difficult -:). This project has slowed down a bit for lack of references but I have recently found a book called "Die Flotte des Kaisers" by Gunter Lanitzki. It contains reproductions of a series of propaganda Lithographics of german warships from the late 1890's. After seing those pictures the project is 'on' again.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:50 am

Hey all!

At the Steelnavy.com web site there is a guy who posted a whole kit of the Polish card model of the 1/200th scale pre-dreadnought Schleswig-Holstein.

http://rapidshare.de/files/29453179/218.part1.rar.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/29453311/218.part2.rar.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/29453369/218.part3.rar.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/29453406/218.part4.rar.html

http://rapidshare.de/files/29453441/218.part5.rar.html

But this file is in RAR format. You have to have special program to open it (download for free through internet)

If those links don't work then drop off an email to rramzay@yahoo.com or jimmy48842@yahoo.com . Either one will send you the PDF files. Then you can print them to hard paper stock.

Note, this company does not have a copyright agreement in the USA or Canada. So, it's quite legal to download this information.

There! The card model is now available for free to you.

Avery Boyer · Post by **Avery Boyer** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:54 am

I found those not minutes after I posted above. i am quite relieved that it's legal. I have the first six sheets printed out on the desk here. If you all like, I can post progress pics of the build? The original poster over on SN was kind enough to send me the files in JPEG format.

maxim · Post by **maxim** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:03 am

G. Shoda wrote:My preference is the predreadnought classes with 9 inch main armament. They were inadequately armed but were fine looking ships. Haven't seen any models of these ships (not counting the coast defense ship Beowulf). There are nice kits of predreadnoughts with larger main guns such as Brandenburg und Schleswig-Holstein.

Good luck, Gunner59!

Do you search for Wittelsbach class? There are a kit in 1/700 by HP-Models:

built model

(text German, photos international)

G. Shoda · Post by **G. Shoda** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:46 pm

Wow, Wittelsbach class. Thanks for pointing out the pictures of the built model. Actually, it is my favorite German predreadnought. I love the look and the sound of the name. Sadly, these ships were outclassed by the time WWI started.

I wonder what would have occurred if WWI started say in 1907 and predreadnoughts were pitted against each other.

cerberusjf · Post by **cerberusjf** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:27 pm

Hi I was wondering if there were any fans of the Brandenburg class of pre-dreadnought in this forum?
Thanks
John

Post by **JIM BAUMANN** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:30 pm

yup--I have my hand up--albeit an armchair fan...

side-tracked by 1/350 Roma-over which I am getting obsessive...(LOL)

but...

I have the book:

Die Brandenburg Klasse

Dirk Nottelman Pub 2002 Mittler u.Sohn Hamburg

ISBN 3-8132-0740-4
all text in German--some very useful photos

Side elevation and overhead plans as well as salient cross-sections.

get a copy here:
http://www.abebooks.de/servlet/SearchRe ... &x=46&y=12

Tom L. · Post by **Tom L.** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:46 am

I could be wrong, but I doubt there's many pre-dreadnought fans who aren't Brandenburg class fans, as well.

I know I am.

Believe it or not, a turret/barbette-and-shield from the Turgut Reis, ex-Weissenbug, still exists in Turkey.

Dissappointingly small photo.

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:45 am

I can't forgive the Turks for scrapping the Goeben...in 1972.

Andy, dying of 'flu.

cerberusjf · Post by **cerberusjf** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:03 am

JIM BAUMANN wrote:yup--I have my hand up--albeit an armchair fan...

side-tracked by 1/350 Roma-over which I am getting obsessive...(LOL)

but...

I have the book:

Die Brandenburg Klasse

Dirk Nottelman Pub 2002 Mittler u.Sohn Hamburg

ISBN 3-8132-0740-4
all text in German--some very useful photos

Hi Jim,
I'm in the same boat as you to an extent, I'm trying to find out about Borodino at the moment, but as I'm going round in circles a bit I thougth I'd give myself a break and try to find some things out about these ships as well:-)

I have the book and it is full of useful photos and sections, very useful

. I was wondering if there were any reliable plans out there? I have ordered a set from mz modelbau but was wondering if there are a better set out there?

Also is there anyone making 1/100 fittings (eg turrets) for him/her? I've seen a lot of very good models of German pre-dreadnoughts and was hoping someone was out there making all the fittings for these ships.

Tom L. wrote:I could be wrong, but I doubt there's many pre-dreadnought fans who aren't Brandenburg class fans, as well.

I know I am.

Believe it or not, a turret/barbette-and-shield from the Turgut Reis, ex-Weissenbug, still exists in Turkey.

Dissappointingly small photo.

Hi Tom,
well I guess it's all a matter of taste

For me I like the tumblehome that some predreadnoughts had, the higher and more extreme the better

I am slightly disappointed that the Brandenburg class didn't go with the two- turret forward (or was it just two turrets) design because the high tumblehome would have stretched along much more of her hull

British pre-dreadnoughts were usually slab-sided and not as interesting in my view.

I found out about the turret fairly recently (maybe from the book) really interesting that it's still around. A good excuse to go back to Turkey on hols

Cheers
John

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:46 pm

cerberusj wrote: I am slightly disappointed that the Brandenburg class didn't go with the two- turret forward (or was it just two turrets) design because the high tumblehome would have stretched along much more of her hull John

John, Brandenburg class was WAY ahead of their time as they were

After all, the next class with all main guns on the centerline was the K�nig class of 1913. The length of the hull seems to have been an important factor for the designers since they decided to opt for shorter barrels in midship turret rather than having hull longer by this, relatively small, amount....

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:07 pm

Has anyone of you ever done the 1/250 paper kit of Brandenburg? It's in my stash and it looks like a very nice kit, i have already scaled all parts down to 1/350.

cerberusjf · Post by **cerberusjf** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:49 pm

DariusP wrote:Brandenburg class was WAY ahead of their time as they were After all, the next class with all main guns on the centerline was the K�nig class of 1913. The length of the hull seems to have been an important factor for the designers since they decided to opt for shorter barrels in midship turret rather than having hull longer by this, relatively small, amount....

That's very interesting! I often wondered why they chose shorter barrels for the middle turret, so wonder why the ship length was so critical?? I seem to remember the reading the ram was designed in such a way that it would do deep damage, specifically to one of the French pre-dreadnoughts (Bouvet I think). Brandenburgs certainly had presence!!

Pieter wrote:Has anyone of you ever done the 1/250 paper kit of Brandenburg? It's in my stash and it looks like a very nice kit, i have already scaled all parts down to 1/350.

No, but I was thinking of getting one, just to get an idea of its layout. You can find some interesting build-ups here. As you say, it looks like a nice kit!!

http://www.ziewe.de/schiffe.htm#Brandenburg
and here
http://www.kartonbau.de/wbb2/thread.php ... randenburg

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:45 am

Labelling of this model is a bit misleading .... On the cover it states "SMS Brandenburg 1893" while, in fact, it depicts Brandenburg after her 1905 modernisation. If it was "as build" I would snap it up in a blink of an eye!

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