Wonderful Source of Info On German U Boats

[Walt]

It seems that the very old as well as very tired post about Type XXIs was finally pulled. I have not patroled here for a few days and have been running deep on the subject.. I came up to PD for a peek and it was gone with no floatsome or oilslick left behind. But it sank a little too soon because I really wanted to offer this. I remembered having a great reference to those with an interest in German U Boats. I went into my library of books and found what is considered by many the best reference to all German Submarines. The book is titled "The U-Boat.. The Evolution and Technical History of German Submarines"
It's authored by Eberhard Rossler and published by the Naval Institute Press, I don't know if it's still available I have had my copy for several years now. Much of my comment to the Types shortcomings from Head valve freezing on the snorkles, poor battery well circulation and poor quality workmanship are all explained in great detail as well as the post War interest and development of the type by allied Navies.
I think Freidman's books are all great but this particular book gets into the nuts and bolts of German Submarine design and deployment. It also has nice plans and maps of all the major U Boat bases etc. Info on every Boat in the German Navy from Baur's Boat in the 1850s to the latest U Boat types in German Service. A great de bunker for sure.

[chuck]

The thread torpedoed itself when certain personal prejudices that it has been laboring under since the first post turned ugly. Some people react with contemptible, belligerent ill grace when a particular author whom they favor is not accepted by all in the discussion as the highest authority of every subject on which these people cares to quote him.

[bengtsson]

The thread torpedoed itself when certain personal prejudices that it has been laboring under since the first post turned ugly. Some people react with contemptible, belligerent ill grace when a particular author whom they favor is not accepted by all in the discussion as the highest authority of every subject on which these people cares to quote him.

Really? I was enjoying that thread. I hate to see such an interesting discussion pulled. Can't they just pull the offending posts and leave the rest? So I think when people get out of hand and make personal attacks, they should get banned from posting.
I have never understood why a topic as interesting as warships and naval history should bring out the worst in some people. If they don't enjoy the subject, why have it for a hobby. I've left a few Warship discussion boards becase of a few habitual asses who knew it all and were simply closed minded bores of the worst sort. I find very little of that on this site. I'de hope we can debate the topics without personal attacks.
No one knows it all. I always say "I don't know it all, but I do know something". And I like my opinions to be respected, they are made with the best knowledge I have at hand and meant in good spirit. People need to be kicked out if they ruin open disussions and display no sense of humor.
While I am on this rant, I also dislike the people who tear a person to pieces for the slightest mistake, typo or slip of the tounge.

Bob B.

[Werner]

Let's not get into the inner workings of the forum, and even less into the inner workings of humans.

The moderation of that thread and a few others was lax to begin with. In the future, it will be much tighter. We do not want this organization to turn into just another unmoderated food fight.

Be glad to start a new thread on submarine ideas, and enjoy the thought that the board will try to stay ahead of people using highly charged words to describe you or your ideas so they can be debated on their merits.

[chuck]

Tighter on yourself or tighter on those who disagrees with the contents of your preachings?

[Werner]

Both.

[chuck]

Good.

[bengtsson]

To be frank, I never saw the offending posts that caused the Submarine thread to get pulled. I came in late and had not kept up on most of the early part of that thread. I have no idea who did what to get it yanked. There was alot of well reasoned debate and information presented in the arguments. Why should we lose that because some can't stand open debate.
How in heck does a debate about German type XXI submarines turn personal anyways? Sounds a bit dumb doesn't it

Bob B.

[chuck]

There was some rather sharp disagreements over whether a supposed authority on the history of American submarine development got certain elements of the history of British submarine development right. Nationalist sentiments were invoked, credentials were demanded, and personal honesties and intellectual integrities were impugned.

Since neither side of the food fight was actually taking a position related to the main topic of the thread, I think there were certainly much about that thread that could have been saved by simply removing the residues and food stains of the disagreement.

[Lesforan]

The Type XXI thread exceeded its crush depth and imploded.

[bengtsson]

The Type XXI thread exceeded its crush depth and imploded.

But not before doing massive damage to the allied cause

Bob B.

[Werner]

There was some rather sharp disagreements over whether a supposed authority on the history of American submarine development got certain elements of the history of British submarine development right. Nationalist sentiments were invoked, credentials were demanded, and personal honesties and intellectual integrities were impugned.

Since neither side of the food fight was actually taking a position related to the main topic of the thread, I think there were certainly much about that thread that could have been saved by simply removing the residues and food stains of the disagreement.

I hesitate to correct you, but that is not accurate. Your statement is closer to a typical bomb toss than accuracy.

A quote about the US interpretation of conclusions of it's type XXI experiments vs it's conclusion on the joint British type "S" experiments was dismissed as fantasy history and incorrect.

Whether this moderator had the time and would be considered unbiased enough to "selectively delete and edit" posts to keep the XXI thread is another problem. It was simpler to kill it. I write-locked it for a day to give people time to take what they wanted, then I killed it.

Now, any further discussion on why the XXI thread was pulled will be itself pulled, because no doubt my explanation will generate as much angst among other posters as your statement generated in me, and that's all we'll talk about here.

[bengtsson]

I hope the type XXI and XXIII are still viable subjects. When I get time, I plan to post information on these submarines in action. The German and Royal Navy experience with them in operation and how they performed. Also the type XXIII war patrols and their performances in action. Need some free time to write it all out. Hope there is interest in their actual performance in operation and not just claims and counter claims

Bob B.