Saint class rescue tugs

[finnfan]

Can anyone help me with sources of information on Saint class rescue tugs, built for the RN in 1918-19?

I believe they were built in two versions �as fleet tugs and as harbour tugs. The differences I am told were that the fleet tugs had two masts with towing hooks and salvage pumps. The harbour version had a single mast, an open bridge and a winch in place of the towing hook.

So my first question is : which ones were built as fleet tugs and which as harbour tugs?

I have drawings of a fleet tug as originally built and it features a 12pdr on a bandstand on the forecastle. However, photos I have of several of the Saint class in the 1930s all appear to have had the bandstand and 12pdr gun removed.

The second question then is : did the units which survived into the Second World War have the bandstands and 12 pdr refitted? and if so, can anyone point me towards photos which show them in war service, particularly in 1940 at Dunkirk?

Thanks in advance

Don

[mike mccabe]

Don
Have you tried photoship.co.uk?

Mike

[finnfan]

Thanks Mike.

Yes, I have tried the Old Ship Pictures site, and there are some nice pictures. Unfortunately they are not dated, but I am guessing they are pictures taken before the outbreak of war. The other snag is that a number of them are stern quarter shots although having said that, all the ones which show the forecastle appear to have had the bandstands removed.

Lenton & Colledge give the armament as a 12 pdr., but this could just refer to the original equipment rather than the equipment they carried in the Second World War. "The Ships that saved and army" mentions the four which served at Dunkirk but is silent on the issue of armament.

A dated wartime picture appears to be the only way of being certain.

I feel a visit to the IWM coming on, but that is now not likely until February, so I was hoping to get some information a bit sooner.

Cheers

Don

[mike mccabe]

Don
What are the names of the ships on photoship?

Mike

[finnfan]

Hi Mike

Pictures of Saint class tugs on Oldship website are: St Clears, St Just, St Abbs, St Day, St Martin, St Mellons, St Monace.

I have pictures of Saints in "RN in Focus 1930-39" of : St Abbs dated June 39 (taken at the same time as the Old Ships photo, but from a different angle), St Cyrus in April 1939 and St Just (same photo as OldShips) May 1937.

The St Clears photo is the same as the one appearing in Lenton & Colledge.

A reply I received via Steel Navy supports my feeling that the distinction between harbour and fleet tugs is as a result of inter-war modifications and the down-grading of some units from fleet use. The reply also says the the large HT Lenton volume lists more than a 12pdr as wartime armament which also suggest that the 12pdrs were refitted; this would make sense as it would be an easy job because they were already strengthened for the purpose. As you have almost certainly guessed, my concern is whether any refitting of weapons took place before they served at Dunkirk.

Regards

Don

[mitch]

Janes Fighting Ships of WW2 1989 reprint:

(7 Saint Class)

St Clears; St Day; St Dogmael; St Martin; St Mellons;
St Monance; St Omar. Built 1918 - 1919 various yards. Dis 570 tons etc..................... but no armament listed in Janes

Note - Two more tugs of this type Toia (ex St Boniface) and Ocean Eagle (ex St Arvans) transferred to New Zealand Harbour Dept and Canadian Govt respectively. Others will be found in the Brazilian, Iraqi and Spanish Navies, and in commercial harbours such as Shanghai, Sydney, Fremantle etc.

The differences I am told were that the fleet tugs had two masts with towing hooks and salvage pumps. The harbour version had a single mast, an open bridge and a winch in place of the towing hook.

Janes has a 1944 photo of St Mellons W81........can't make out any armament on that, but has a single mast - can't make out if there is a winch or open bridge.

No mention of Ocean Eagle in Canadian section; or Toia in NZ section.

Brazil and Spain - no tugs; Iraq, no entry.

[ARH]

There were 64 Saint class ordered, 18 were cancelled, 46 went into service, of these 26 were in RN service in the last 50 years.

[mike mccabe]

Don
Sounds a bit of a guessing game this one, but I'll keep looking.

Mike

[Rui Matos]

Hi Don and Mike

Have you tried asking the brazilian members about any info on their tugs - perhaps you could get lucky
I have checked my Brazilian navy book (it comprises the pre-WWII, WWII and until the 80's) but with no success

Cheers,
Rui

[finnfan]

Thanks Rui and Mike for your interest.

I did find some pictures on-line of the New Zealand Toia as a result of your prompting to look at the cverseas ships.

However, today I managed to sneak in a quick visit to the Imperial War Museum photo archive. All I could find was a couple of very nice 1918 shots of St Abbs and St Bees on builders trials with the 12 pdr fitted, and a Saint class in the background of another picture either at the evacuation From either Dunkirk or Brest. As usual it was a stern -on shot so it looks unlikely I will get a definitive answer about whether the armament was refitted.

I will just make the model in what seems to be most likely guise. That usually guarantees that the picture you have been looking for turns up just as you complete the model!

Cheers

Don

[Gareth]

I have a scratch built saint class, double masted, running on a car radiator fan motor. I don't have the gun on bow but a nice little winch kit that cost about �20. There arent many pictures available on these tugs (even the city library only has a side view drawing in it's book on steam ships).

[Hubert Desgagnes]

Hi
I don't know if you find any more info about the Saint's class tugs.
I am from Qu�bec city. One of the Saint ocean class tug was the Ocean Eagle, which became the AIGLE D'OC�AN. She was owned by my father's cousins from 1958 until she sank in the canadian arctic in 1975 with the lost of 4 crew members. A that time she was not a tug anymore. She was modified to become a diesel driven coaster, sailing mainly on the Great Lakes and on the St Lawrence river, and from time to time in the Arctic.
The other former Saint ocean going tug, was the St Hiliers and she was transformed as a buoy tender for the canadian Govt.
If you have copy of the plan, I want to build a model of the AIGLE D'OC�AN. She was 135 feet in lenght
i have few pictures of her, and one when she was a tug. 2 mast, one single stack,one openbridge on top of a wheelhouse.
Hubert

[Hubert Desgagnes]

I have a scratch built saint class, double masted, running on a car radiator fan motor. I don't have the gun on bow but a nice little winch kit that cost about �20. There arent many pictures available on these tugs (even the city library only has a side view drawing in it's book on steam ships).

Hi gareth,�
Could you send me a copy of a picture of your model?
hubertd6651@yahoo.fr
Thanks

By the way, the OCEAN EAGLE, ex AIGLE D'OC�AN was the former St. Arvans