Calling all Benson-class & Gleaves-class DD fans

[Rick E Davis]

PLUNKETT is an interesting subject. The 1942 LIVERMORE kit would be the best starting point. But some mods to the kit will be required. I assume you want the Ms 12mod camo, so her configuration is different from LIVERMORE in that she was one of the DesRon 7 units authorized to have FIVE 5-in guns and only one TT mount and ten 50-cal MGs when the King Board AA mods were done on the early BENSON-GLEAVES class units in the summer of 1941. PLUNKETT had some stability issues and in September 1941 her 53 mount was removed. Then she had six 20-mm guns replacing the 50-cal MGs in early 1942 with two on the aft deckhouse. In May 1942 she had a quad 1.1-in mount installed on her former 53 mount foundation (on the centerline). The aft deckhouse 20-mm guns are located in a different location than they were on LIVERMORE and the other non-DesRon 7 GLEAVES class units, being installed further aft abreast the aft con station. Also, the searchlight was relocated atop the former aft TT mount foundation.

So using on of DML's quad 1.1-in mounts and moving/relocating the two aft 20-mm guns (and tubs) and the searchlight should be most of what would be required as far as I can think of right now. There likely are other minor differences noticeable after studying photos.

[robertandy]

Sounds pretty straightforward, I know NAVSOURCE has a couple decent photos, I will look at them and try and spot the differences, any other pics out there you know of?
Rob

[robertandy]

Now of course as I look at Plunkett, it has me looking at other Atlantic ships, Wilkes is also very interesting, but pictures of her in 1942 in MS 12 are rare on line, but what would her outfitting be like for this one NAVSOURCE picture of her in MS 12?

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0544108.jpg

Rob

[Rick E Davis]

I think you intended this under the BENSON-GLEAVES fans thread.

Anyway, WILKES would be nearly exactly configured as the 1942 LIVERMORE kit. I don't have any images of her in this camo scheme. So unless there is another image of her from the other side, about all you could do is mirror image her pattern from this side.

[robertandy]

Ha! Yes I did, and thanks for the answer!
Rob

[Zed]

I have the Dragon kit of the 1945 Benson and would like to make her as the Mayo in late 1944, post Anzio rebuild. Looking at pictures of the Mayo it would appear that she has the aft Torpedo Bank removed and a platform in its place, but I can't tell what was on the platform. Does anyone have a drawing or a better photo that shows what should be there? Also, is the platform resting on the deckhouse or is it on supports.

Reading this forum I see that Rick Davis wrote an article in Warship International about the Mayo and her unique armament but I can't find that available for back order so if any one can answer this question from that I would be most grateful.

Thanks

Graham

[Plastic Habit]

Hope this might help you Graham.

[Zed]

Thanks, that is perfect.

[Rick E Davis]

You are asking for a couple of things here. MAYO was repaired and updated during her repair at New York Navy Yard. She had the AA augmentation of four 20-mm guns "temp" armament for service in the MED. The attached image from 15 August 1944 shows her with the platform that replaced the aft torpedo tubes. After this photo, MAYO had two single 40-mm guns added on the main deck. The second image shows the complete AA augmentation arrangement on NIBLACK.

Also, MAYO was unique in having had a walkaround extension to the bridge. See image 3.

Yes, in early 1945 MAYO had the extra 20-mm and singe 40-mm guns removed and the second torpedo tubes installed prior to heading to the Pacific.

[robertandy]

Anyone know, when Plunkett went to MS 32D and if she wore that scheme off Omaha on D-Day? Seems as if Livermore did in late 43 or early 44 so? I found a couple grainy pictures of her in that scheme and it renewed my interest in building her with the Livermore kit vice, Wilkes....Grayson....... Livermore herself......all the other ones. This must be why I don't build many ships, I love them but am too wishy washy in deciding which one to build. Sure is fun reading and researching though! Maybe I just need to build a fleet!
Rob

[Rick E Davis]

I going to stick my neck out some, because I don't have any photos of PLUNKETT during June 1944.

PLUNKETT was painted in Ms 22 in late April 1944 after her repairs were done. She left for Europe in early May 1944. I suspect she was still in Ms 22 off Normandy.

I "think" PLUNKETT was painted in dazzle when she returned to the USA and had the aft torpedo mount installed.

The photos of BENSON-GLEAVES units at D-Day I have seen, show them painted in Ms 22 camo. Dazzle schemes seem to have been adopted by the Atlantic Fleet in about August 1944 and lasted into early 1945.

[robertandy]

Thanks Rick!

[robertandy]

Another of my possibly annoying camouflage questions, anyone know when Wilkes went to MS 22?
Rob

[Rick E Davis]

WILKES likely repainted to Ms 22 in about September-October 1942 prior to the North Africa invasion. She certainly was repainted by December 1942 after her upgrade with two twin 40-mm mounts according to available yard photos. Most of the BENSON-GLEAVES units repainted to Ms 22 prior to the invasion of North Africa ... but not all units did ... but very few retained earlier measures.

[robertandy]

Thanks Rick I think that seals it Wilkes it is! I notice that the tubs for her twin 40mm mounts are similar, but not exactly the same as Livermore's . The pictures on Navsource looks like it does not have the straight shields that extend forward from the round portion. Other than that she looks very similar to the pictures of Livermore from the same period. Does this seem like a fairly accurate assessment? Thanks again!
Rob

[Rick E Davis]

I'm a little confused. The 1942 LIVERMORE kit doesn't have twin 40-mm mounts installed. Just six 20-mm guns.

Here are two onboard views of WILKES ... first on 16 December 1942 after her 40-mm mounts upgrade ... the second a few months later on 23 February 1943 when some refinements were done. Both photos were taken at New York Navy Yard. Note that the location of the Mk 51 directors on elevated platforms forward of the 40-mm tubs is the early type for the early GLEAVES class units modified with two twin 40-mm mounts. Later the platforms for the Mk 51 directors were relocated inboard of the twin 40-mm mounts like seen on the 1945 BENSON kit.

[robertandy]

Yes I know the Livermore kit is not configured that way I plan on modifying it. I am basing my thoery on a picture of Wilkes in Navsouce, Navsource for some reason won't open right now though so I can't link to it. I shows a picture of Wilkes from above showing what looks like larger tubs with covered 20 mm.
Rob
Was able to get on Navsource here is a link to the picture I am referring to, May 1943

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0544184.jpg
AND I found this on the USS JP Kennedy site which contains a log of the Wilkes activities both narrative and chronological. My guess is the upgrades that came after the above pictures happened in May '43
http://ussjpkennedyjr.org/wilkes441/441luck10.html

[Rick E Davis]

If you want to save a little effort, kit-bashing by using a 1945 BENSON kit to achieve the referenced configuration ... with the Mk 51 directors relocated inboard ... would get you closer to this configuration. It does look like the repairs/alterations were done in April-May 1943 at Boston Navy Yard. Her DesRon sister DD-442 NICHOLSON was modified at New York Navy Yard at about the same time (April 1943) having the directors relocated inboard (that would also explain why I don't have any photos of WILKES in the yard post mod like her sister ... there are fewer photos of Boston repair/alterations available).

[robertandy]

Thanks Rick, I don't want to get a second kit to bash, but I have gotten pretty darned good at scratchbuilding over the years, since it seems I never can build anything whether ship plane or tank straight out of the box! I think I can get the shape pretty close from the Navsource overhead shots and then use sister ship pictures for the configuration since it looks close to Livermore's and I will look at Nicholson's as well. Also out of curiosity, would this be the same configuration she went to the Pacific in?
Rob

[Rick E Davis]

The Summer of 1943 configuration would be the configuration they had when they went to the Pacific. They had a refit in December 1944-January 1945 when a few changes were made ... Mk 22 radar added to her Mk 4 (BENSON-GLEAVES units never got the Mk 12 radar) add the starboard crane was removed.