CA-38 Diorama

[Angeliccypher]

I am working on the USS San Francisco and wanted to show her doing something interesting. In 1944 one thing really caught my eye. The bombardment of Saipan. So the idea is to show her broad siding the island. This is part of a group build for anything related to Saipan within my local model club.

What I will be using for this build:
Trumpeter's San Francisco 1944 kit in 1/350
Gold Metal Models photo etch set for the kit
Artvox's blue stained wood deck
Veteran 5"/25
Veteran Quad 40mm BOFORs with FCD
Master Model barrels for the 8" and 5" guns
Master Model 20mm Oerlikons

Enjoy and please feel free to comment or suggest things along the way.

[Angeliccypher]

I removed the horrible propeller guards, chocks, molded on anchor chain and leadsman platforms. I also drilled out the hawsehole, the tow rings, and a very tricky angled drilling for the anchor chain on the fo'c'sle which broke one of my drill bits in the process.

Everything you see has been glued on. In order to make the decks flush to the top of the hull I could not use the placing lip inside the hull, but I managed it alright I think.

Does anyone know if the 8" guns would recoil when fired? Also I found a picture showing the splinter shields for the forward most 20mm, and they appeared to be different than the kit's. The picture was dated after WWII though so I do not know if Trumpeter got it right or not. Like wise are there any other corrections I should be aware of on this kit?

[GazzaS]

They'd have to recoil. Otherwise, everything attached to them would be damaged, or so heavily constructed that the ship would be extremely top heavy.

The recoils on ship guns are much shorter than land guns like howitzers. For instance, the 16 inch guns of Missouri only recoil 48 inches. Whereas the m-198 howitzer (155mm) of my USMC artillery career could recoil up to almost 8 feet depending on the charge fired.

I've seen footage of the US 5-inch secondaries firing. Their recoil is amazingly short, and easy to miss if you blink.

[taskforce48]

The MK 12 8 inch gun is listed as having a 32" recoil. There is a photo of the forward turret firing on page 51 of the CW pictorial. It's hard to tell due to the angle, but it looks like the might be some perceptible recoil. The bow 20mm shields are close but not quite right. The forward faces are flat but there is a section nearest the center line that angles more towards the stern and is more square vs the Trumpeter gently curved version. I am fairly certain that there was a standard RS locker in the forward part of the tub and the way Trumpeter has them, that would not leave much room for the gun mount and crew. The way that I was going to fix was cut the forward part of the shield off, extend it forward as on the real SF the centerline bollard is almost completely flanked by the tubs. On the trumpeter kit, the bollard is forward of them.

HTH and post more pics!

Matt

[Angeliccypher]

Working on the aft structure that contains the hangar I recal someone saying the door was was incorrect for her after Guadalcanal. Does anyone have any photos of the new door or what the inside looked like?

[taskforce48]

I did a review of the kit here and there is a pic of the hangar door. Went from garage door style to accordion style after refit.

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

HTH

Matt

[Angeliccypher]

Thank you so much. I am going to see about adjusting the kit based off the things sifted in your review.

[Angeliccypher]

More work has been done. I have started to clean up the structure that contains the hangar including removing the hangar door. I have decided that I am going to detail the inside of it including putting one of the SOC-3 in with the wings folded.

I have pics but my computer is dead so I cannot format then to work on the website from my phone yet. If anyone has good pics of a New Orleans class hangar I would appreciate it.

[taskforce48]

Here is the best pic I have found, this is a prewar shot of the Astoria's hangar. I posted this a few years back on page 11 of the CASF thread.

HTH

Matt

[Angeliccypher]

Finally have some updates to show on her. Just doing sub assemblies right now. Seam filling still needs to be done still and I am starting to work in corrections that need to be done to the kit.

All the sub assemblies so far

Dry fitting them to the hull

Thanks for looking and the comments so far!

[JTninja]

I like this project. Im a sucker for anything USN Pacific '44

[hypno7]

Very nice Gabriel! This is one that is also on my list, will follow along

[Angeliccypher]

I am going through and cleaning up seams and correcting some minor inaccuracies in the kit now before progressing further.

Filled the forward portholes as they should have been plated over.

Looking at the photos and using the Veteran Quad 40mm replacement guns I realized the molded on riser for the aft gun tubs was way to high. I ended up having to remove them all together and lower the splinter shield itself for the dip you see that faces outboard.

The seam that is between the portholes and the splinter shields for the 5"/25 guns has been a challenge. More to come as I get this cleaned up.

The plastic section under the 20mm base (Master Models) has to large a circumference, but the hight might be close. I will check other photos on this. The nick in the splinter shield is because I remember seeing a photo that showed that side rounded down on her in '44. Now I cannot locate the photo again to verify. If anyone has information either way please let me know.

[taskforce48]

Gabriel,

Can't find any photo showing the 20mm tubs on the bow that really show that area clearly. You also have to be careful as these were not always matching from ship to ship. I am now slightly convinced that they were not symmetrical mirror images of one another. There are two up close shots in the CW pictorial 5, one right after they were installed and then another that is almost identical taken in November of 44(this one is on Navsource). They appear to be almost identical except the starboard one appears to have an additional facet on the forward inboard side that angles inboard. You can see in the 11/44 shot that they had the riser step for the gunner around the base of the gun, but they are absent in the 2/43 shot. Possible they were not installed until 11/44 when the tripod mount was installed in those tubs. You made the 40mm tubs look good, only issue is I believe that to be a 11/44 refit addition as well. The kit tub appears to better match her initial 2/43 refit that she operated with until overhaul in November of 44. That seam might benefit from some MR. Dissolved Putty. I like using this where seams are hard to sand, often after a few thin applications and some smoothing with a Q-tip will do the trick. Plus a slight seam may give some tooth to some weathering there especially disappearing under her very dark MS21 paint scheme for this time period. Glad to see you back at work on her, looking forward to seeing further updates.

Matt

[Angeliccypher]

Yeah I think the picture I saw the bow 20mm shields is is a different ship. You mentioned a step for the gunners. What did that look like? Was she still using the round pedestals previous to her 10/44 refit?

For that annoying seam, it has a bit of a lip to it so I am very slowly taking a micro diamond file to it.

If her retro fit was not done till 10/44 that modified the 40mm gun tubs, when was she painted in her splinter pattern?

[taskforce48]

Hansen's book cites a design sheet from February 44' but no photos of her prior to October/November show her in her dazzle. Plus, she returned to MINSY on 8/16/44 for her overhaul after her actions in the Mariana's. A photo dated May of 44 still shows her in her MS21, those dazzles only seem to have been done at stateside yards. She still seem to use the pedestal style 20mm until her late 44 refit. The step was a raised rail that probably only went half way around the circumference of the guns base. This was used in some gun tubs to allow the gunner to have the height to get the gun at a negative elevation and engage low flying targets.

Matt

[taskforce48]

You can see it inside the starboard tub in this photo.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/038/0403857.jpg

Photos of this series are great for what you are looking to build. Most of the changes that you will need to make are circled as they were updated during this fit. It didn't even dawn on me until looking again that she only carried 4 quad 40's at this time. She had only 20mm on the hangar roof.

HTH

Matt

[Angeliccypher]

Okay so I am currently correct for what I am doing except needing to make the 20mm tripods instead of pedestals and add the foot rail/risers. That and I will not be able to do Saipan for the diorama. But I will figure that part out.

[taskforce48]

Sorry to rain on your parade, wasn't the intent. I believe she was still in the dazzle at the bombardment of Iwo Jima, not fitting with the club build but still inline with you original vision.

Matt

[Angeliccypher]

I am greatful for the rain. I would rather get it right an be way off base with presentation. So thank you!