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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:35 am 
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Hi all here is my WIP thread of HMS Hood as sunk, 1941 by Trumpeter using 3D printed parts from Shapeways and PE from Flyhawk.


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File comment: Starting point: Flyhawk PE set, Shapeways turrets (not shown), Brass tubes for masts (not shown lol) and the kit itself, which is shown.
18161494_1905215679750571_3257655985900093440_n.jpg
18161494_1905215679750571_3257655985900093440_n.jpg [ 194.59 KiB | Viewed 1271 times ]
File comment: WIP - current stage
image1.jpg
image1.jpg [ 237.09 KiB | Viewed 247 times ]
File comment: Progress pics...
Hood Progress 2.jpg
Hood Progress 2.jpg [ 56.21 KiB | Viewed 246 times ]
26070174_2025491561069493_5663638103240212480_n.jpg
26070174_2025491561069493_5663638103240212480_n.jpg [ 101.32 KiB | Viewed 121 times ]

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1/700 HMS Hood WIP


Last edited by pascalemod on Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:25 am, edited 29 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Hello,

Looks like a great project you've embarked on here, hope you post in-progress shots as I would love to see this come together.

I'm in the middle of building the same kit, albeit in a much less ambitious way (mostly OOB but with replaced turrets and a wood deck). I'm afraid I can't answer most of your questions directly but I can try to give some additional pointers.

Make sure you check out http://ontheslipway.com/ as that is also a wealth of detailed information on the ship in the form of a 1:350 scale scratchbuild. The builder is on these forums as EJFoeth as well. This one is great as well: http://3dhistory.de/wordpress/3d-models/hms-hood/

Are you replacing the turrets? If not you should be, the basic shape of the Trumpeter ones is somewhat off. My personal recommendation would be these: https://www.shapeways.com/product/S4P7X ... d=61572631 3D printing knocks the competition out of the water for replacement parts these days. You can remove the barrels and replace with brass if that suits you better.

Do you have a copy of the Anatomy of the Ship book on Hood? That has a full rigging diagram among other things.

I don't know the extent of the Flyhawk set and if it corrects this, but a major bit of recent research invalidates both the AotS book's and the Trumpeter kit's assumptions about the bridge. The upper platform either side of the compass platform windows is NOT continuous at the same level, it is lower forward and higher aft (http://ontheslipway.com/wp-content/uplo ... dge_01.jpg). This is a fairly easy fix on the kit parts, I can share some pictures of how I've done this if you like.

Best of luck and I'm sure others will chip in on the technicalities of boats and cranes :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:21 am 
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I'll try to mix facts (F) with opinion (O) :)

1) Portholes - drill out, or fill with dark grey-black wash? This is 1/700 scale remember.
(O) I would never drill out portholes (only to fill them with some stock styrene, slightly recessed)

2) Little cranes next to various hatches - remove them for battle? Makes a bit of an easier build.
(F) The two torpedo davits near the breakwater were nearly always stored, so yes. The other smaller davits near hatches (tiny actually in 1/700) were folded down. Note that the ladders from the fwd superstructure to the fwd deck, and the 4 ladders from from the superstructure towards the quarterdeck were also stored inside when at sea. The largest derricks were nearly always stored (bulkhead of the bridge, for example).

3) Other hatches in hull - model all closed as prepped for battle?
(F) Closed.

4) Hatches in the deck - all closed for battle?
(F) Closed. That is, perhaps some hatchways in the mid superstructure were open, but I doubt that for battle.

5) Lifeboats - present on the deck or some taken below deck?
(F) The only lifeboats are Carley and Denton floats; the rest of the boats were not technically lifeboats. But in any case: all on deck.

6) Lifeboats - covered with light gray or white color tarps or uncovered?
(F) All covered. This is one area where I will have some "artistic license" introduce an error and NOT add these covers (same for hawser reals).

7) amount of weathering on the anti-fouling paint - discolored already or still bright red? Survivors said it was black when it upturned, but it could have been oil I guess...?
(?) Don't know

8 ) hull anchor howse pipes, areas on the bow - rusty still? Overall how weathered would the hull be? I know they kept ships clean but generally speaking RN warships were often in much less kept shape than Kreigsmarine (I guess because they were actually used...)
(F) HMS Hood was frequently (!) repainted in 1941 and should be very well kept. However, some sediment and such is always present near the hawse pipes, even though the entire area was usually hosed. So some room for fouling there, but keep it subtle.

9) PE - Flyhawk - do you glue on superstructure brass panels on TOP of the plastic pieces or use them as replacement of plastic parts? Talking about conning tower for example I have the whole thing supposedly folding into a superstructure and I wonder if this is legit or it will be so brittle I will regret it...
(?) Don't know about kits and/or PE sets

10) who has rigging instructions for Hood? a good source i welcome. I dont wanna fully rig it in this scale... but basics are a must.
(?) How to do the rigging itself, or, how to do the rig? If the latter, I guess the Anatomy of the Ship is a good starting point? (Haven't studied the rig very well so far)


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:53 pm 
Vlad wrote:
Hello,

Are you replacing the turrets? If not you should be, the basic shape of the Trumpeter ones is somewhat off. My personal recommendation would be these: https://www.shapeways.com/product/S4P7X ... d=61572631 3D printing knocks the competition out of the water for replacement parts these days. You can remove the barrels and replace with brass if that suits you better.

Do you have a copy of the Anatomy of the Ship book on Hood? That has a full rigging diagram among other things.

I don't know the extent of the Flyhawk set and if it corrects this, but a major bit of recent research invalidates both the AotS book's and the Trumpeter kit's assumptions about the bridge. The upper platform either side of the compass platform windows is NOT continuous at the same level, it is lower forward and higher aft (http://ontheslipway.com/wp-content/uplo ... dge_01.jpg). This is a fairly easy fix on the kit parts, I can share some pictures of how I've done this if you like.

Best of luck and I'm sure others will chip in on the technicalities of boats and cranes :wave_1:


Thank you for the tips.

Regarding turrets - are they obviously wrong, even with PE added? Im asking because those you linked to are 21 dollars, the kit was cheaper, so something is off with the pricing of something here. :) Is it a must? Looks like a ripoff, its like a dollar part in material so labour at x20 seems crazy.

I will have to take a closer look at the bridge. Please do share the pics and ideas how to fix it, I think I might do that indeed! Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:58 pm 
EJFoeth wrote:
I'll try to mix facts (F) with opinion (O) :)

2) Little cranes next to various hatches - remove them for battle? Makes a bit of an easier build.
(F) The two torpedo davits near the breakwater were nearly always stored, so yes. The other smaller davits near hatches (tiny actually in 1/700) were folded down. Note that the ladders from the fwd superstructure to the fwd deck, and the 4 ladders from from the superstructure towards the quarterdeck were also stored inside when at sea. The largest derricks were nearly always stored (bulkhead of the bridge, for example).

6) Lifeboats - covered with light gray or white color tarps or uncovered?
(F) All covered. This is one area where I will have some "artistic license" introduce an error and NOT add these covers (same for hawser reals).

7) amount of weathering on the anti-fouling paint - discolored already or still bright red? Survivors said it was black when it upturned, but it could have been oil I guess...?
(?) Don't know

8 ) hull anchor howse pipes, areas on the bow - rusty still? Overall how weathered would the hull be? I know they kept ships clean but generally speaking RN warships were often in much less kept shape than Kreigsmarine (I guess because they were actually used...)
(F) HMS Hood was frequently (!) repainted in 1941 and should be very well kept. However, some sediment and such is always present near the hawse pipes, even though the entire area was usually hosed. So some room for fouling there, but keep it subtle.

9) PE - Flyhawk - do you glue on superstructure brass panels on TOP of the plastic pieces or use them as replacement of plastic parts? Talking about conning tower for example I have the whole thing supposedly folding into a superstructure and I wonder if this is legit or it will be so brittle I will regret it...
(?) Don't know about kits and/or PE sets

10) who has rigging instructions for Hood? a good source i welcome. I dont wanna fully rig it in this scale... but basics are a must.
(?) How to do the rigging itself, or, how to do the rig? If the latter, I guess the Anatomy of the Ship is a good starting point? (Haven't studied the rig very well so far)


2) I will come back to this when I get to it.
6) Trumpeter kit in this scale are poorly made and I will use HMS Hood Association advice and make tarps for them, plus it will make for different kind of model to others I see.

8) What about the second anchor (away from the bow) on the starboard side? Where is the anchor for it, was it missing? What about hawse pipe covers on the deck - were they in place only for the 2nd (closer to turret) one on starboard side, or present on all hawse pipe openings? PE provides all 3 covers...

10) I meant the schematics and layout.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:48 am 
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Guest wrote:

Thank you for the tips.

Regarding turrets - are they obviously wrong, even with PE added? Im asking because those you linked to are 21 dollars, the kit was cheaper, so something is off with the pricing of something here. :) Is it a must? Looks like a ripoff, its like a dollar part in material so labour at x20 seems crazy.

I will have to take a closer look at the bridge. Please do share the pics and ideas how to fix it, I think I might do that indeed! Thanks again!


The turrets on the Trumpeter kit are too angular. They look almost OK from the side but not really from the top. Dressing the turret in PE won't change this unless the set you have completely alters the turret face. Ultimately, it's up to you to look at pictures and drawings and decide if this bothers you enough to make it worth the cost. 3D printing is still a fairly young technology, hence the expense, but in my opinion worth every penny (or cent if you like). There may be resin replacement turret sets as well, which would be cheaper, but I haven't searched for them in great detail. In any case though, Trumpeter kits are pretty cheap to start with and it looks like you've already spent more on PE than the base kit, do you want that blemished by sub-par turrets? Put it this way, I am using no other after market parts in my build but still considered it worth it to double the cost of the whole project just for those turrets. If you do go for them though, I recommend reading some of the other topics on here about working with 3D printed parts, as they have some more specific preparation, cleanup and painting needs.

I'll upload some bridge pictures later, and a couple of shots of the turrets as well for comparison.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:49 am 
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Guest wrote:
Vlad wrote:
Hello,

Are you replacing the turrets? If not you should be, the basic shape of the Trumpeter ones is somewhat off. My personal recommendation would be these: https://www.shapeways.com/product/S4P7X ... d=61572631 3D printing knocks the competition out of the water for replacement parts these days. You can remove the barrels and replace with brass if that suits you better.

Do you have a copy of the Anatomy of the Ship book on Hood? That has a full rigging diagram among other things.

I don't know the extent of the Flyhawk set and if it corrects this, but a major bit of recent research invalidates both the AotS book's and the Trumpeter kit's assumptions about the bridge. The upper platform either side of the compass platform windows is NOT continuous at the same level, it is lower forward and higher aft (http://ontheslipway.com/wp-content/uplo ... dge_01.jpg). This is a fairly easy fix on the kit parts, I can share some pictures of how I've done this if you like.

Best of luck and I'm sure others will chip in on the technicalities of boats and cranes :wave_1:


Thank you for the tips.

Regarding turrets - are they obviously wrong, even with PE added? Im asking because those you linked to are 21 dollars, the kit was cheaper, so something is off with the pricing of something here. :) Is it a must? Looks like a ripoff, its like a dollar part in material so labour at x20 seems crazy.

I will have to take a closer look at the bridge. Please do share the pics and ideas how to fix it, I think I might do that indeed! Thanks again!


I have no vested interest in 3D printing but something is off, and unfortunately it's your understanding of the cost of the printing medium - in the nicest possible way of course!

The material is the biggest cost here and why 3D printed part costs go up almost exponentially as the scale increases.

I do agree with the others though - the Trumpeter turrets are noticably off. Trumpeter's 15" gun barrels are not very representative of the real thing either in many of their 1/700 RN subjects.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:33 am 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:

I have no vested interest in 3D printing but something is off, and unfortunately it's your understanding of the cost of the printing medium - in the nicest possible way of course!

The material is the biggest cost here and why 3D printed part costs go up almost exponentially as the scale increases.

I do agree with the others though - the Trumpeter turrets are noticably off. Trumpeter's 15" gun barrels are not very representative of the real thing either in many of their 1/700 RN subjects.


I will consider those turrets, since I am trying to build a good ship. My comment still stands though, as of now the cost of 20 bucks for 4 tiny bits of plastic is a bit out there, level of tech not withstanding. I will consider the resin options of course, as those seem a little cheaper. Thanks for the tips though, i know it was well meant!

Vlad wrote:
do you want that blemished by sub-par turrets? Put it this way, I am using no other after market parts in my build but still considered it worth it to double the cost of the whole project just for those turrets. If you do go for them though, I recommend reading some of the other topics on here about working with 3D printed parts, as they have some more specific preparation, cleanup and painting needs.

I'll upload some bridge pictures later, and a couple of shots of the turrets as well for comparison.


You are right, im gonna get the blasted turrets in the end, the perfectionist in me kicked in and I gotta have the best. While Im not interested in buying the deck, I suppose this could be my alternative:). Flyhawk was more than the kit, you are correct!

Looking forward to the pics of the bridge!

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Last edited by pascalemod on Tue May 09, 2017 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:36 am 
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On a separate question - but related to turrets... Did the guns during the battle in Denmark Strait have any blast bags? Trumpeter included two versions. Curious which one is more accurate. I have brass barrels but they are meant to be fitted into blast bags.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:29 am 
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There is this famous picture of Hood believed to be taken as she sailed to intercept Bismarck. Blast bags on all guns, painted hull colour.

Image

Actually I realise I lied, I am using a wood deck on my Hood, but mostly because I'm too lazy to paint deck details :cool_2: if you have a painting technique that works for you to simulate wood decks I would agree the stick-on ones aren't essential, but they are handy.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:04 am 
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Vlad wrote:
There is this famous picture of Hood believed to be taken as she sailed to intercept Bismarck. Blast bags on all guns, painted hull colour.

Image

Actually I realise I lied, I am using a wood deck on my Hood, but mostly because I'm too lazy to paint deck details :cool_2: if you have a painting technique that works for you to simulate wood decks I would agree the stick-on ones aren't essential, but they are handy.


Im using the well known "ship models from kits: 1/700...." book and have a decent degree of success painting by hand. My issue is the Tamiya paint is very bad to paintbrush, retarders and all. But I think Ive developed a style that I like by now and will stick with it. :) Thanks for the pic, it helps on the gun side of things!

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Right, here are the pictures as promised. Note the modifications to the two major bridge pieces in the Trumpeter kit.

On the upper piece (kit part F19), I drilled and sanded out the forward section to leave only the walls. I also filled the kit's ladder holes (these are incorrect) and added partial shields and a half-height ladder down to the compass platform level.

On the lower piece (kit part F13), the raised portion at the front becomes the "floor", level with the compass platform. I cut out a notch in this part to fit the half-height ladder up to this deck.

Excuse the rough paintwork on the final assembly shot, kit is still very much WIP at this point.

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As for the turrets, here is a link to my original preview: viewtopic.php?f=85&t=164867

Below is a shot of the turret (now painted) next to Trumpeter's sprues. As you can see, the kit turrets are too angular and just look off, as well as having hugely overscale rivet details. The 3D printed ones have very fine rivet detailing (not sure my paintwork does it justice) and the blast bags are very finely rendered based on pictures. The barrels are as the turrets come from the printer but I don't see why you couldn't cut these off and drill a hole for brass replacements.

Attachment:
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I hope that helps! :wave_1:

Oh, one more thing. Since you're building full hull, it may be worth noting that Trumpeter's paint instructions leave a bit to be desired. The ship sat quite low in the water and the black boot stripe is not narrow as shown in the kit instructions, but wide and reaching up to the top of the 12" armoured belt (which was almost completely submerged at full load). At the lowest point of the quarter deck, just forward of X turret, the boot stripe should be almost as wide as the distance from the top of the boot stripe to the deck. Basically, about half the space between the kit's waterline split and the quarterdeck should be black.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:55 am 
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Vlad wrote:
Right, here are the pictures as promised. .......
Oh, one more thing. Since you're building full hull, it may be worth noting that Trumpeter's paint instructions leave a bit to be desired.


Cheers! I read the review of the turrets just after the last post on HMS Hood Association website and they felt that the turrets were a lot better on this kit vs 1/350 scale and I saw why. Still, your pics do show the new ones nicer. I am not so happy with the brass barrels included in Flyhawk set now that I see some other versions. So I might order those separartely with smaller caliber guns and the turrets

As for the painting - absolutely, I also noticed something was off right off the bat. Given how bad the seam joint was, I have lost the straight line division already - and will need to do the boot topping the old fashioned way anyway by putting a pencil around the whole thing. So I am aware for this, but your idea of proportioning it versus the hull height is a good one, thanks.

Are you hand brushing the whole thing or using an airbrush? What paints? You gotta have a WIP thread here, I cant find it, sorry for all the qs.

One thing IM also puzzled is the location of the degaussing cable around the stern. Does it sit above the portholes and straight or does it go up with the edge of the hull and hugs the deck? Some photos I recall seeing it sag low, but on many 3D drawings it is with the hull edge. Confused...

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:50 am 
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For what it's worth, the 3D printed barrels don't warp, have a good shape and a hollow muzzle. I expect brass is still better though.

I brush paint with Humbrol Acrylics and Xtracrylix but the colour on my Hood is my own mix so take it with a pinch of salt. I build fairly casually so I tend not to do WIPs unless I'm doing something weird I think others might like to see, like a big conversion project. I just photographed the Hood bridge fix because I thought someone might find it handy and you quickly proved me right!

Not sure on the degaussing cable to be honest, let's see if someone else chimes in on that.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:38 am 
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Hood was painted Home Fleet Grey in May 1941 and typically kept in very good condition.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:07 am 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:
Hood was painted Home Fleet Grey in May 1941 and typically kept in very good condition.


I know that, which is why I said to take my paint with a pinch of salt. I chose to try to match the colour footage knowing it exaggerates the blue tint, so that the model looks more like the ship does in my mind's eye. It's a personal choice, but I like to think not too wildly out.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:11 am 
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I think your HFG looks pretty good actually :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:53 am 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:
I think your HFG looks pretty good actually :thumbs_up_1:


Ah, thank you! I thought I was taking a bit of artistic license with the blue content but it's hard to judge these things in different light conditions. If anyone's curious, the mix is Humbrol 27 with 104 for the blue tint then lightened with 127 and a touch of white, but I was pouring back and forth between two pots (and occasionally adding other colours) until I was happy so I wouldn't be able to give exact proportions. I ended up with the pot I'm using on Hood and one other a bit darker and more blue that's probably not far off USN 5-N Navy Blue.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:04 am 
The paint Im using is Tamiya XF66 which was recommended as the closest Tamiya match for airbrushing. However I plan to add a bit of blue hue to it as per Vlads comments also, I feel it is a bit too gray. Color is subjective of course but I get a sense the ship should be on the darker / bluish side. And I think Vlads screen pictured it well. More experimenting ahead but I need to figure out how to get this degausing cable stern placement first.... :whistle:


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:52 am 
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Humbrol 27 is XF-54 but it may be a touch too dark for 1/700. The colour issue is really subjective indeed so up to you on that one :wave_1:

For the degaussing, I'm really struggling with my references. Best I can do for you is the Anatomy of the Ship book. It shows the cable roughly following the deck line, although slightly separating from it once it's past the muzzles of Y turret and wrapping around the stern a little bit below the deck, a gap about it's own width. Can't be 100% but I don't think you can go very wrong with that. Honestly though, I don't know how fine the PE degaussing cable you have is but looking at how small the stern is in 1/700 it will barely make a difference.

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