Calling all Bismarck and Tirpitz fans

[81542]

thegreenmachine,

Re: Your post of 5 Feb.

Asmussen and Leon's (A and L) book on German Naval Camouflage in World War 2 (Volume 1) is probably the best Reference available that I know of though there may be others that the BISMARCK/TIRPIZ fans are aware of.

A and L contains an illustration of the ship around the time that you are interested in. In it the main mast is painted black from the bottom of what I understand was the helm indicator "box," up to the truck. However, the well-known photograph taken from the starboard quarter; which is also in the book, could lead one to believe that the "black" extended further down. It could be soot though or the appearance of the mast against the light.

It's remarkable just how much that ship's appearance changed over the short period of her life!

I hope that this helps.

81542

[Thegreenmachine]

I wonder why the searhclight dome appears to be very light colour compared to the rest of the ship in this one the last pictures of Bismarck. In all other pictures it doesn't strand out like this.

Looks like the searchlight dome was still painted white from the baltic scheme. It looks too bright to be a light reflection. Maybe the crew was not able to paint the area just using ladders.

[rvuorenr]

I wonder why the searhclight dome appears to be very light colour compared to the rest of the ship in this one the last pictures of Bismarck. In all other pictures it doesn't strand out like this.

Looks like the searchlight dome was still painted white from the baltic scheme. It looks too bright to be a light reflection. Maybe the crew was not able to paint the area just using ladders.

Very plausible, here's another pic to corroroborate. Wonder how come this hasn't been discussed before, or maybe it's just me with poorly scanning the references.

[rvuorenr]

Building the Revell model in 1/350 and I wonder if these ladders in funnel under the searchlight dome are correct? They don't show up in the two pictures attached, but maybe they were there at some point of time?

[Admhawk]

There is a ladder visible in the first picture between the gun barrels and crane that might be it, although, it might be a little farther back. The second pic has the boats in the way.

[rvuorenr]

There is a ladder visible in the first picture between the gun barrels and crane that might be it, although, it might be a little farther back. The second pic has the boats in the way.

I think the ladder you refer to, is on the side/top of the hangar, it's also visible in the second picture.

[Edoardo81]

Confirm, the ladder exists from the beginning. Maybe in the pictures it's few visible.

[pascalemod]

Very plausible, here's another pic to corroroborate. Wonder how come this hasn't been discussed before, or maybe it's just me with poorly scanning the references.

Yes not at all discussed. Much like that dark grey strip below anchor on that side as they couldnt repaint it well when in port, so the bow has a hitler moustache if you like. At least on that side, not sure if same on the other...

[Bob the Stug]

Noticed what appear to be rectangular blocks on the upper hull, above the armour belt and almost adjacent to B and C main battery guns. I can't find any information as to what these are? Can anybody tell me please?

Thanks Bob

[Admhawk]

Noticed what appear to be rectangular blocks on the upper hull, above the armour belt and almost adjacent to B and C main battery guns. I can't find any information as to what these are? Can anybody tell me please?

Thanks Bob

There are rectangular Scuttles (or hatches) with hinges along the top edge that are sometimes opened, most likely for ventilation.
Deck plans show a room at each location titled Heizbl�bernahmeraum, which translates to Heating transfer room. Possibly heat exchangers for air conditioning?

[109]

Noticed what appear to be rectangular blocks on the upper hull, above the armour belt and almost adjacent to B and C main battery guns. I can't find any information as to what these are? Can anybody tell me please?

Thanks Bob

There are rectangular Scuttles (or hatches) with hinges along the top edge that are sometimes opened, most likely for ventilation.
Deck plans show a room at each location titled Heizbl�bernahmeraum, which translates to Heating transfer room. Possibly heat exchangers for air conditioning?

It should probably read Heiz�l�bernahmeraum ... fuel tranfer room.

[Admhawk]

It should probably read Heiz�l�bernahmeraum ... fuel tranfer room.

I think you're correct.

[Bob the Stug]

Many thanks both, appreciated

Bob

[pascalemod]

How was Tirpitz decks before she was lost?

1) painted grey same as ship?
2) left to natural color with those gray stains (some say they were result of all the oil and dirt on deck from explosions and difficult to remove, others a camouflage attempt to make her look like fjord coast).

Bonomi's model shows here as dark grey on deck and lower freeboard and deck in grey (option 1), but others (Leon and Asmussen) show her deck with spotted deck (option 2).

Do we know? whats a good most recent source on Tirpitz?

[Admhawk]

I doubt anybody knows for sure, but this recce photo from July 1944 has splotches on deck.
I think they are too regular and well defined to be oil or dirt stains.
I believe they are painted camo. No idea what color.

[pascalemod]

I doubt anybody knows for sure, but this recce photo from July 1944 has splotches on deck.
I think they are too regular and well defined to be oil or dirt stains.
I believe they are painted camo. No idea what color.

I am referring to 1944 where she was painted like so:

And the commentary by Antonio Bonomi from here:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

"To be noticed are the full configuration on 20 mm quadruple flakvierlings on the ship and the absence of any air recognition symbols as well as the deck painted on same hull dark grey. This was done after a trial on KaaFjord with some dazzle painting ( during July 1944 )."

A.Bonomi has written books on few ships from Kriegsmarine. his comment above on his own model is noteworthy. It is a pretty basic illustrative model, and for sure the research since have probably moved on. Still, this is what peaked my interest.

We for long time painted Tirpitz in grey tones but now green is being added all over the place (which looks strange to me that they would paint her green and sortie out to Arctive after PQ17 with that green paint.. but i digress).

I ask as I recently scored revell tirpitz 1/700 scale, a ship I long after was hunting on classifieds, after finishing Bismarck 5 years ago from same company. And I am now contemplating to paint her in her final configuration, a very rarely seen camo on models.

The deck is a puzzling point! And Bonomi's explanation makes sense but who knows.

[Edoardo81]

Hi all, I'm close to completing my 1/350 bismarck.

Next step is rigging.
I have Stefan Draminski's book + super drawings 3D.

Is there any other source to get for the rigging pictures??

Thanks
Edoardo

[Mr. Church]

We for long time painted Tirpitz in grey tones but now green is being added all over the place (which looks strange to me that they would paint her green and sortie out to Arctive after PQ17 with that green paint.. but i digress).
.
The deck is a puzzling point! And Bonomi's explanation makes sense but who knows.

I agree the appearance of green is interesting. I have heard it suggested that this is due to eyewitness testimony. But who knows? Eyewitnesses could be mixing it up with her spring 1942 colour scheme from Faettenfjord where she definitely was green, tan and brown to blend with the fjord and forests? As is proven by a colour photo.

Curiously there are plenty of colour photos of her starboard side in the 1942 splinter scheme. But there do not seem to be any of her port side. Frustratingly.

As regards the 1944 scheme I'd say both AdmHawk and Bonomi are correct. The deck splotches are too perfect and too regular to be oil or settlement from a bomb near miss. But equally the decks must have been badly stained and discoloured from said bomb near misses. So probably both items at once.

[81542]

Green Machine,

Your last message re the location of the ensign, hoisting of admirals flag and draught marks appears to have got lost in the"hiatus." Can you repeat it please?

[Thegreenmachine]

Your last message re the location of the ensign, hoisting of admirals flag and draught marks appears to have got lost in the"hiatus." Can you repeat it please?

Sorry for being a bit late: I was asking at what point did Admiral Lütjens took command of the battlegroup - and when did his admirals flag appear on the ships mast?

As for the large Reichkriegsflagge: I assume it was hoisted on the main mast when the stern flagpole was taken off - but when was the stern flagpole used and when was it taken off? Was it just used in peacetime/parade or also during training?

Last question was on the depth markings: Were these overpainted when Bismarck received its baltic scheme with the false bow or was it reapplied after the paintwork was done?