WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

[smithec]

Fascinating to see how Jim is going through the same research, deduction and thought processes, followed by modelling challenges, that I went through with my Lex. I think between us we'll have come as close to reality as is likely until someone turns up all the lost material about splinter shields and the flag bridge etc. Well done mate, it's a fascinating subject. Hang on in there. Wait til you get to the air group bit - aaarrrggghhh!!!!

[lvsquarerigger]

I've been out of town for a little bit so haven't done any work on the kit. One surprise when I got back was my PE set from GMM was here waiting. Haven't even opened the envelope but I'm sure it will be interesting.

In my questing I was taking to someone who told me Steve Wiper had the plans of what was "actually", not "planned", done at Pearl. I sent an e-mail to the address he lists on a website but haven't gotten any reply.

Oh well,

Jim

PS Chris I'll go back and answer your individual notes later.

[lvsquarerigger]

The radar room is way off. Chris shortened and narrowed his but in the pics I saw it did seem shorter but not narrower so I just shortened it. Glued it up and let it sit overnight. The cut the curve off the back and recurved it to fit. Haven't yet filled the windows.

I was browsing photos and found some of the reason for the discrepancy. It seems earlier on the Lex did have a big room with lots of windows on the funnel. But sometime between "38 and Oct. "41 that changed as seen it the two bottom pics.

The 'big room' on the front of the stack was the Pri Fly - where the air group was managed from. It was actually two decks high, open at the rear on either side, top deck no roof, just a windshield. The whole caboose was removed and replaced with the samll radar shack.

Yes I know. Quite a few pics of Pri Fly from before the modification but very few of the radar shack, pardon my inference that they were the same thing, and I looked at your mod, then the pic I had, and back and forth just figuring. My final deduction was that the kit had the width right, but definitely not the length out from the funnel, so I acted accordingly.

[lvsquarerigger]

Well my 5" and quad mount guns from L'Arsenal came in today and I looked at them to see what it will take to assemble them. Does anyone have a mini-me hanging out somewhere? That PE stuff is TIIIIINY! Oh well, I guess that's what magnifiers are for anyway. It will definitely be an adventure into new worlds for me.

Jim

The L'Arsenal 5-inch mounts are great. Not so the 1.1-inch mounts. There isn't enough breech length in them and the mounts themselves are little, if anything, better than the mounts that come with the kit. I chucked my L'Arsenal 1.1-inch mounts away in disgust. Instead I used WEM's PE set and the kit barrels.

Being lazy, I think in terms of efficiency, can you give me more details on what you did or tell where it's documented in your build log? Not in favor of searching more than 20 pages.

Jim

[lvsquarerigger]

The top is next. Chris says there was a vent below the top and he detailed how he provided that by raising, cutting, and it seemed like a lot of work for nothing to me. I used a miter saw to cut down at both ends and on both sides. I ran masking tape from front to back and then used a cordless dremel to cut it out. It wasn't perfectly straight but by staying to the waste side it only needed a little filing to clean up.

Disagree! It was easy just to sand down the top of the stack by the depth of the vent, put a couple of plastic card fillers in at either end and shape them to the curve of the stack. No cutting, no danger of damaging the stack.

You say potato, I say potahto. Really just a difference how we each perceive our tasks and what is easier for each. To me it was simpler to just cut it, have faith in my skills, and have it done. (If you look at later pics you'll notice a couple of small pieces of styrene as I did cut just a smidgen too far forward) No need to make extra pieces, drill for the radar mount, and then make sure it all fit again. The one detail I'm scuffling with now is do I try to put in those little dividers I can just barely see in the Sara photo. Hmmmmmm. Inquiring minds want to know.

Jim

[lvsquarerigger]

The L'Arsenal 5-inch mounts are great. Not so the 1.1-inch mounts. There isn't enough breech length in them and the mounts themselves are little, if anything, better than the mounts that come with the kit. I chucked my L'Arsenal 1.1-inch mounts away in disgust. Instead I used WEM's PE set and the kit barrels.

Being lazy, I think in terms of efficiency, can you give me more details on what you did or tell where it's documented in your build log? Not in favor of searching more than 20 pages.

Don't worry about replying now. I got ambitious this morning and searched out the relevant parts of your build log, it's page 14 for those who want to look, so it seems I still have some thinkng to do on how to get them right.

Jim

Jim

[lvsquarerigger]

Boy, research on this is getting crazy! As soon as I think I have something clear a new point comes up and DAMN!!!!

Anyway as I try to get a clear focus on the AA guns and shielding I came across two sites that have pics in general of the two guns used and also found some of the 20mm ones too. SO now I have a clearer idea of wht I am dealing with to go on.

Here are the two sites I found if you want to look and see all of them your self:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-25_mk10.htm

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_1-1-75_mk1.htm

and also the 20mm http://www.hnsa.org/doc/gun20mm/index.htm


The first two are actually on the same website, just different pages, but I found them by searching each gun on it's own.

Now to figure out what I will do? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Jim

[lvsquarerigger]

I've been piddling and trying to get some things at least to the point where I can say "that part is done!" Hah!!!

I got the PE grills on the stack and painted the insides, also the inside of the lower piece it mounts on, a flat black. So there is at least one thing I can look at and say done.

I'm pretty much satisfied, after much filling, sanding, fine finisihng and wet sanding, with the hull to get ready to apply the red paint on the lower section. Trouble is I'm not satisfied with the propeller shafts, they have a slight sag. So later today it's off to the hobby shop for the correct size of brass rod to replace that part. After the shafts are cut out, the supports drilled and glued on, I can remove the shafts and then paint the bottom.

After comparing the splinter shielding on the gun mounts with what I found in the info yesterday I think I have enough to at least make an educated guess as to how they were done and will proceed along that line.

As for the guns themselves I haven't quite decided yet how I'll do that but I do like the way Chris's quads came out. Having said that I guess I'll now have to get some more PE, this time from WEM, but that gives me a chance to again talk to Randy so I guess it's not all bad.

My paints arrived also but that now means I have to get my airbrush operational and learn to use it so there is quite a bit on my plate for now. Fortunately I have a couple of friends who are into that part of it, they do cars mostly so do a lot of it, and of course are willing to tutor the new guy.

Back to the salt mines.

[lvsquarerigger]

Still haven't made it to the hobby store but I have been busy. After puttering with the hull I think I'm satisfied with it overall. So I made a command decision and decided to redo the splinter shields on the 5" guns.

The first thing was to cut out all the existing ones and have a clear place to start. Then came the problem of making the new ones and getting the curves right and glueing them in place. Not an easy task as there is no way I could see to clamp them other than fingers! I was using stryrene strips, and they are flexible but do not hold a shape if you just bend them so I used heat, from a handy hair dryer, to accomplish that task.

I started by clamping the strip around an appropiate sized dowel and using that so my pinkies didn't get singed. It worked, sort of. It wasted a lot of strip because the clamps distorted the strip beyond the dowel. By accident I found I could just set the clamp to the correct distance, bend a piece of strip in there, heat it and let it cool, and voila! I have curved plastic!!

Now to get the little bugger to fit!

I made a small notch on one side so it could slide back on the deck. This located one end and made it a little easier to hold the whole slippery thing in place until the glue got a little bit of a set. Then it was on to making the cut at the other end and getting it right. Trying to measure around the curve was more than I could do so it was make it long and slowly creep up on the correct size then glue it in. Because it takes so long for the pieces to set, even the next day they are still a little wobbly, I could only do so much and then had to let it sit.

I am putting them all in at the same height, approximately where I think the high points are and will then cut down the lower sections, getting in the sloped and curved parts, when it is solid. I didn't see any way to do this before they were on the model.

The pics show how the sponsons are cleared and then how I proceeded. You can see in some of the pics that the rounded shield goes back where it is not needed. I did this to help in the glueing and then cut them off when they were set.

Then there are the fairleads to deal with. There had to be holes in the shields to allow lines acces to the bollards behind. I decided to put holes where I thought appropiate. There are a couple of them visible in one photo of bomb damage but since I am going totally off the wall with this I'm doing it as I think it was and so it is , until something definitive comes out of the woodwork anyway!

In the final sequence of pics I show how the last one was formed and glued in place. Starting with the rough strip, then the different stages of cutting and forming, and then in place.

Enjoy

[John W.]

Jim -
Good work! I've been poking around getting some ideas for how I'd deal with those splinter shields and came up with pretty much what you've done. A few days back, Tracy posted an item on the General Forum showing SAN FRANCISCO's Guadalcanal damage report with photos. Toward the bottom of that very extensive number of photos was a picture of one of her 5" / 25 cal guns taken head-on and from several feet above it. It shows the notched out areas to allow the gun barrel to depress for close-in targets as well as the raised sections between the adjoining 5" mounts. I am sure the raised sections are to protect crews from enfilading splinters so that you wouldn't get all three crews with a single set of splinters. The picture in your 5" / 25 cal link shows this same protection on NEW MEXICO with good effect. I think the NM photo is a near perfect duplicate of the LEX arrangement, though the LEX shields appear to be perfectly circular whereas the NM ones are more elongated as found on pre-war heavy and light cruisers (NORTHAMPTON, BROOKLYN, SAN FRANCISCO as examples).
As a quick note, the holes in the splinter shields through which the lines are passed to the bollards are horizontal slots with the ends rounded. Basically shaped like a link of an anchor chain. I'll see if I can find a photo reference to help you.
Ship models are the product of lots of small details. My hat's off to you for tackling this detail - one often overlooked. Be sure to ask me about the spreaders on the main mast - they're lattice work (similar to those on ARIZONA), not solid as on the kit . . . (psst - I know what PE fret has the right sized parts that can be used) . . .

[lvsquarerigger]

Jim -
Good work! I've been poking around getting some ideas for how I'd deal with those splinter shields and came up with pretty much what you've done. A few days back, Tracy posted an item on the General Forum showing SAN FRANCISCO's Guadalcanal damage report with photos. Toward the bottom of that very extensive number of photos was a picture of one of her 5" / 25 cal guns taken head-on and from several feet above it. It shows the notched out areas to allow the gun barrel to depress for close-in targets as well as the raised sections between the adjoining 5" mounts. I am sure the raised sections are to protect crews from enfilading splinters so that you wouldn't get all three crews with a single set of splinters. The picture in your 5" / 25 cal link shows this same protection on NEW MEXICO with good effect. I think the NM photo is a near perfect duplicate of the LEX arrangement, though the LEX shields appear to be perfectly circular whereas the NM ones are more elongated as found on pre-war heavy and light cruisers (NORTHAMPTON, BROOKLYN, SAN FRANCISCO as examples).
As a quick note, the holes in the splinter shields through which the lines are passed to the bollards are horizontal slots with the ends rounded. Basically shaped like a link of an anchor chain. I'll see if I can find a photo reference to help you.
Ship models are the product of lots of small details. My hat's off to you for tackling this detail - one often overlooked. Be sure to ask me about the spreaders on the main mast - they're lattice work (similar to those on ARIZONA), not solid as on the kit . . . (psst - I know what PE fret has the right sized parts that can be used) . . .

Guess I have to change that one small square and redrill it. Thanks for the info.

If I ask reeeeeaaal nice will you tell me what PE set? Perhaps whisper in my ear?

Jim

[John W.]

Jim -
whissisper ssps pssess white ensign pssbs spism.

[lvsquarerigger]

After all my hard work I got a private attaboy and also a heads up that I was just a smidgen off. It seems the platforms were not exactly circular but slightly elliptical! After looking at the appropiate pics I had to agree. So it's back to square one, almost. At least now I have a system that works, it just has to do some that I already thought were done.

Oh well, I manned up and removed what I had already done, filed and sanded the platforms to the correct shape, and now it's time to begin anew.

Hopefully this time it stays.

[John W.]

Jim -
Yes, I believe close examination of the pictures does confirm the tubs are more elliptical than I had thought. I'm sure there's a good reason why, though it's not obvious to me what it is. Many heavy and light cruisers as well as your linked photo of NEW MEXICO had the elliptical shields as opposed to circular. There's a picture in Wiper's book (LEX Class Carriers - page 16) of LEX in August 1941 in Measure 12 Graded with the taller splinter shields clearly already installed. Page 41 also shows SARA in May 1942 undergoing refit in Bremerton, with an overhead view showing elliptical splinter shields for the forward 5" gun gallery. Though SARA has had one of the 5" guns replaced by a quad 1.1" mount, I suspect these splinter shields are close to what LEX had from August '41 onwards.
For those who may have wondered about the PE source for the main mast spreaders after my attempt at humor above, I used the White Ensign 1/720 ARK ROYAL detail set. The lattice deck edge antenna supports are the right size and shape once you cut off the little 'J' - shaped doohickey on the end of the supports. There are eight of the supports on the PE fret, so it's a perfect opportunity to share with a fellow LEX modeler (sorry - I've already done that with my extras).

[lvsquarerigger]

Jim -
Yes, I believe close examination of the pictures does confirm the tubs are more elliptical than I had thought. I'm sure there's a good reason why, though it's not obvious to me what it is. Many heavy and light cruisers as well as your linked photo of NEW MEXICO had the elliptical shields as opposed to circular. There's a picture in Wiper's book (LEX Class Carriers - page 16) of LEX in August 1941 in Measure 12 Graded with the taller splinter shields clearly already installed. Page 41 also shows SARA in May 1942 undergoing refit in Bremerton, with an overhead view showing elliptical splinter shields for the forward 5" gun gallery. Though SARA has had one of the 5" guns replaced by a quad 1.1" mount, I suspect these splinter shields are close to what LEX had from August '41 onwards.
For those who may have wondered about the PE source for the main mast spreaders after my attempt at humor above, I used the White Ensign 1/720 ARK ROYAL detail set. The lattice deck edge antenna supports are the right size and shape once you cut off the little 'J' - shaped doohickey on the end of the supports. There are eight of the supports on the PE fret, so it's a perfect opportunity to share with a fellow LEX modeler (sorry - I've already done that with my extras).

As you say it does go much easier now that I have worked out the details. I also tried a different approach to bending the styrene, using a candle this time instead of a hair dryer. Much better control. And instead of holding them on a dowel I clamped the dowel to my work table and then heated the styrene and as soon as it was pliable I would wrap it around the dowel and hold it until it cooled. Much better results with fewer too hot failures. I have almost got the starboard sponson back to where it was and have the first pieces on all the other platforms. I'm also finding little ways to make them fit easier and better. WIll relay all that when I post pics to go with it, perhaps tomorrow?

For now It's a few PE hatches and little things then on the shelf to rest and let the glue set before I continue.

[lvsquarerigger]

So I removed the splinter shields I had put on, flattened the platforms, and then started installing the shields again.

I first put the small pieces on the flats between the gun positions as this gave something solid to work against as I put the curved pieces on. I would put a long section on one side to divide the sections and then one side just long enough to go by the flat piece already installed. I put glue under the one that would stay and not under the short one that would later be cut off. I had to let the flat pieces set for a day so they would be solid. Then it was on to the round pieces.

In one pic you can see the pieces I used as a wedge against the fairlead to hold it's shape while the glue set. I learned I could avoid this by bending a crease into the styrene. This let the straight section line up and it only took a little time holding it till the glue got some grab.

This morning I cut the holes for the lines to access the fairleads but haven't fabricated the bollards the lines would go to through the fairleads. Also I filed and sanded the shields to make sure the joints were square and crisp. Once the supports, I really don't know what to call them but they are pieces of steel that stick out from the shield in a regular pattern, are in place it will all look crisp.

The line holes are a little bigger than I like but I haven't anyway to make them smaller. If I use a smaller drill bit I can't clean up the hole and it's really ragged so I guess I'll live with it as is.

[lvsquarerigger]

OK, I lied, or at least fibbed a little. I couldn't just let it be so I tried a little different way to make the holes.

I first sized a drill to match the space in the fairleads, figured this was an easy way to scale it, chucked it in my cordless Dremel, and proceed to clean up the existing holes, and also replaced 3 different sections and then redrilled them.

Also cut the shields down as I thought they should be.

[lvsquarerigger]

While waiting for the shields to set I also mounted the rudder and shafts. I intend to remove the plastic shafts and replace them with brass rod, not because they are out of alignment or shape but just because that's the way I want it to look when done.

The rudder came to me as a one off, resin casting of what the rudder actually was, so I accepted it and here it is. It only has a place for one hinge. I glued up three small strips of styrene to get the thickness then cut out a groove in the hull and mounted it. After it had set I cut and filed it to shape and then mounted the rudder. Then it was each of the shafts. One other reason for using brass rod is the PE props have a hole slightly smaller than the plastic.

[John W.]

Jim -
Great progress getting those details done and right. Thanks for providing the photos.

[lvsquarerigger]

Well I finally made it to the hobby store and ended up going to both of the ones I use here. It seems that one didn't have every little thing I need, and some of the styrene strips are really little and thin, and I still had to have them order in some tube. These are pics of the shielding as it gets to finish stage. Having the small strips I could now get the stiffeners on. This is only one side and the other will come soon, but no more pics of that as these are enough.

I also added the seams that show on the sponsons for the flight deck widening. Ignore the dark lines, they were the first way I tried to get all those fine wispy lines to align but it didn't work quite right so I removed them and started with the front one in place and then using a spacer, a strip of styrene, to align the next one. The strips seemed to want to glue to the spacer and not the ship so that was tossed as non-effective. Then I clamped the spacer in place, used the point of a #11 exacto to scribe the line, and then carefully laid the strip on after dragging it lightly through some glue. This seemed to solve the problem but be aware it was like handling a hair in the wind and a real pita. But it's done so now there's one less thing to do. Of course fifty more pop up but that's part of the fun.

The actual pic I used as reference came in about 3 pixels aver the limit here on the forum so had to shrink it even more but it's the best I can do.