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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:39 am 
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It was the presence of the .50 cal in the photo that made him think it was taken pre-war. However, if you look at the photo, in addition to the smoke from the burning stack, smoke is rising from around the forward elevator. Yorktown had received a bomb hit in that area from the Hiryu attack and the man in the foreground with the hammer is cutting the planking around the bomb hole in the elevator in preparation for the temporary patch in the deck. This fire deep below the elevator smoldered until the 6th when Capt. Buckmaster and his salvage crew returned to try to save the ship. Since smoke did not normally occur that far forward, that makes this photo unlikely to have been taken during a "normal" pre-war evolution, even without the sure knowledge we have of when it actually was taken.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:15 am 
Well, thank you for all your info. I was able to download the plans, even though from 1940 I'm sure they will help alot. Sorry if I seemed not trusting but I never take someone at their word I alway's like to ask questions and see what people are saying with picture proof or communications or battle reports or ship yard photo's ect.
Have they declassified everything (Photo's and films) of the Yorktown class and Lexington CV-2? I would like to get copies of the Navy Yard photo's of when Lexington was altered before Coral Sea. I was in the Navy for 8 years and so I figure they got lot. I know there were when I was in of my ship.
If they have declassified the films and photo's? Where to they keep it where you can get copies? The Libarary Of Congress? The Simithsonian?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:03 am 
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NARA 2. The National Archives and Records Administration in Washington DC has all the Yorktown class drawings and photos.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:38 pm 
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DennisJP wrote:
I would like to get copies of the Navy Yard photo's of when Lexington was altered before Coral Sea.

Unfortunately, so would everyone else. As near as anyone can discover, the photos had not been forwarded before Lex was lost, and so after she sank, they were believed to be irrelevant, and were probably destroyed. A number of researchers have searched extensively for them without success. Of course, those who do that research have indicated that there is a great deal of material in the archives that has yet to be cataloged. Who knows what may yet turn up.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Why do i not see a CXAM radar in that pic? i do not recall reading about it being removed at any point,

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:59 pm 
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I see it...the square frame is clearly visible.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:27 pm 
Dick J wrote:
DennisJP wrote:
I would like to get copies of the Navy Yard photo's of when Lexington was altered before Coral Sea.

Unfortunately, so would everyone else. As near as anyone can discover, the photos had not been forwarded before Lex was lost, and so after she sank, they were believed to be irrelevant, and were probably destroyed. A number of researchers have searched extensively for them without success. Of course, those who do that research have indicated that there is a great deal of material in the archives that has yet to be cataloged. Who knows what may yet turn up.


Do you think the Navy Yard at Pearl Harbor would have copies?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:02 am 
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DennisJP wrote:
Do you think the Navy Yard at Pearl Harbor would have copies?

I guess that anything is possible, but I believe that avenue has been followed before. If you have some access, it might not hurt to ask again.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:24 am 
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Timmy C wrote:
I see it...the square frame is clearly visible.


Thanks Timmy, i never realised the screen was so transparent or that the framework was a lot thinner.

Happy Modeling

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:41 am 
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Some Yorktown shots:

Image
Image
Image
Coral Sea (that is Lady Lex somewhere in the smoke)
Image
Midway:
Image
Image
Image
Image

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:28 am 
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:woo_hoo: Great photos of Yorktown's deck markings!!!... and color detail of the 1.1inchers. Where did you get these - and more please more!!

Many thanks!!


Last edited by jabarry on Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:39 am 
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Now all we need is a shot of the deck markings from midships out to the bow. From the Cheek landing photos and the sinking photos it looks like the centerline dashes continue to the bow, but the outside dash lines end near the forward palisade or catapults. Also wondering if she received the centerline dashes during her brief yard stay before Midway. I can't really see them in the Coral Sea stern deck picture.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:02 am 
jabarry wrote:
Now all we need is a shot of the deck markings from midships out to the bow. From the Cheek landing photos and the sinking photos it looks like the centerline dashes continue to the bow, but the outside dash lines end near the forward palisade or catapults. Also wondering if she received the centerline dashes during her brief yard stay before Midway. I can't really see them in the Coral Sea stern deck picture.


When you look at the deck markings also and compare the size with the mans foot near by you can understand why they are not seen from the air.
The deck markings have to be only about 8" wide. Or is that me looking wrong?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:09 pm 
always look closely at reference items in photos..

like say the color white. is the thing in the photo you know to be white really white? or say the color is shifted, thus one can deduce the real color pretty spot on by compensating. the blue in the uniform is well known so consider it, if there is no white. the 1.1" shots look really close, but the deck shot is clearly shifted to the magenta. look closely at the stripes on the starboard side you can see they have a pinkish cast, so do the clouds. the effect is to make the water more blue so it is common. but the deck color is likewise shifted so would look less brown, more grey than it does in this photo.

another is lighting. something in the lee of the sun will look darker due to the shadow, and things like the deck often catch a glare from direct reflection and thus what ever is under the glare is seemingly gone. same with a shadow,

the deck marking might seem to vanish, yet in truth it is just a illusion of perspective. looking at the photo one can see the vanishing point perspective looking down the deck as the lines grow narrower and narrower and the the two seem to want ot converge in the distance. given as is mentioned above the lines are no more than 8" at some point they will vanish simply due to the angle of view which diminishes to a point less than the resolution of the image. thus a better photo (original) might reveal a tiny bit more.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:46 am 
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This morning, to coincide with the Battle of Midway's 70th anniversary, I launched a CV-5 website:

http://cv5yorktown.com/

It's still very much in-progress, and will be added to as time and content allows.

-Devin

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:48 pm 
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I recently collected the result of my analysis to try and figure out just what were the flight deck markings of the Yorktown at Midway. I sent this analysis to the Battle of Midway roundtable where I am hoping to get some feedback. I wish to share this with this forum also for feedback and discussion and I also will forward any updates on progress. Sorry I haven't had more time to capture more stills of the Tom Cheek landing sequence. I hope to do that soon.

Here is what I sent the BOMRT:

Many of us who have been interested in the history of carrier operations in WWII and the stories of those who participated in them are also scale modelers. One of our mysteries for as long as I can remember (my interest in WWII carrier aviation began in the early 1960s) are the flight deck markings of the USS Yorktown at Midway. I think I have finally come close, but I would love some feedback from those on this forum who saw these markings first hand.

I have closely examined the film footage that was shot by Bill Roy. My source was the DVD on the F4F Wildcat from Aircraft Films. I have constructed a starting point for what the markings might have been after very careful and repeated examination of the controlled crash landing of Tom Cheek’s “White 16" and subsequent photos of the flight deck. Unfortunately there are not photos that cover all parts of the flight deck.

Note, the drawings of the Yorktown I do not profess to be 100% accurate as to armament or some configuration details (For example they show 20mm armament, but not the .50cal positions). I obtained these elsewhere and still think they are fairly accurate as to overall configuration and colors.

I took these drawings and added what I suspect is a good starting point to get the flight deck markings accurate based on film and photos.

These are my conclusions and assumptions based on the evidence so far.

1) From the film of Tom Cheeks landing it is clear that at least the port outside dash line ends shortly forward of the 1st barrier forward of the amidships elevator. Therefore I assumed that the outside starboard dash line ends at the same place. You don’t see the obvious end in photos 1 and 2 but you see them end if you view the entire video of the landing. Note, there is extremely brief jump cut so you don’t actually see the correction back to port to the center line that Tom Cheek pulled off - very adroitly I might add! (Photo 1)

2) The center dashed line is thinner than the outside lines and continues to a point somewhere beyond where the outside dashes end. This is evident from the Cheek landing sequence up until "White 16" flips over on the center line near a point which is close to being nearly perpendicular to the bridge. "White 16" first veers to the right and makes a relatively quick correction back to the left before straightening back right along the center line.

3) There is another dash mark that appears near the end of the forward port wing about the time "White 16" starts to flip over, but it does not seem to be repeated either in the film sequence before or after the aircraft flip over - in other words a lone dash for some reason. “White 16” flips over almost right on a straight line of the center line narrow dashes. (photo 2)

4) A center dashed line appears in sinking photo where the bow alone remains just above water, however - it appears thicker than the centerline toward the stern. (photo3)

5) My assumption is that the narrow center dashed line continues to the first palisade near perpendicular to the bride where it changes to a wider dash line that continues to the bow.

6) Film from the angle forward port of the island looking back to the starboard quarter supports that the outside dashes end as stated above just after the amidships elevator and the centerline continues on. But still no conclusive evidence in photos that I know of containing the flight deck forward from a perpendicular line at the bridge. (photo 4) (photo 5 is the same as photo 5 but with Cheek’s approximate landing path)

7) The deck edge around all the elevators have a thin solid gray line around them. (photo 4) This is obvious in the Cheek landing video as he goes over the amidships elevator. I assumed this would be around all elevators.

\8) I have also included a color image looking back of Yorktown’s stern at the burning Lexington at Coral Sea while a TBD files overhead. What is interesting here is that no center line dash line is discernible. Could be the angle and/or light – or did the Yorktown get a fresh coat of stain and/or markings in her brief yard stay at Pearl after Coral Sea? (photo 6)


Thanks for any help that can be given by the group. I am sure there are others whose contributions would be valuable but of those I know of who participate here are Otis Knight, Bill Roy and Tom Cheek.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Here is one additional image that represents where I do not have a video clip or photo from a good angle that shows the flight deck.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:45 pm 
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For those wishing to correct their Trumpeter hulls, board member Pbudzik has posted the lines he drew for his own bread-and-butter-style correction: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=98433

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:48 am 
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I also made an attempt to outline the hull plating. I traced over the Marylland Silver drawings.

Link to PDF:
http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Enterprise%20Scratch/Hull%20Plating.pdf


Paul

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http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Neptune/Lockheed_Neptune_Model_Budzik.html
http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/outside_the_box.html


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:12 am 
jabarry wrote:
Was doing my research for a kitbash of Tamiya Enterprise and Hornet to do a Yorktown. I had seen no pictures that showed evident flight deck markings on the Yorktown during Midway. I ran across this today and it appears to show centerline dashes on the forward flightdeck. Pull it up in picture viewer and it becomes pretty clear. These appear to be larger than the ones the BigE sported. Interesting pic of the forward catwalk platforms too. Oh, and I noticed that the centerline of the flight deck just happens to be out of all the pictures showing the damage after the dive bombing so it seems like the possibility of a centerline dash line ONLY with dashes somewhat thicker and longer than the BigE dashes. But still nothing conclusive. I heard there are pictures of a deck crash showing markings, but I have not found or seen these. Sorry if this is all old news, just getting back into ship modeling after 20 some years and I didn't see a discussion of Yorktown's deck markings here.

Also, anyone have a definitive list for this conversion? I did a rather quick search through here and didn't see one. I am compiling my own, but still it could save me some time.
Attachment:
yorktown.s1.jpg


When you look at the scale of the deck lines you see that a mans foot is longer than the deck lines are wide. So from altitude they would not show up in pictures. Also when you look at the scale of a 1/700 scale model deck lines would be optional. In 1/350 scale they would show up.


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