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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:59 am 
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Location: Michigan
Here's my 23 inch long patrol boat hull, printed in SLA (stereolithography, where a laser draws the shape in a pool of liquid resin). This process, in large format, became available to me through a source other than Shapeways.

Looks pretty good for a first part of this complexity and size in this material. Part is straight & true.

One notable issue/design consideration:
The SLA process includes creation of an integral support structure under the part. This is pretty fragile and is torn off the model by hand, then any nubbies are hand finished smooth... see the example part image.

But if you try to save on material with very thin walls, you might suffer some damage when the support structure is removed. This happened on my spray rail (the step at the chine), and around a couple of the freeing ports.
No problem, I can repair these... but I'd beef up those areas in future designs.


Attachments:
File comment: 23 inch hull
IMAG1094b.jpg
IMAG1094b.jpg [ 134.37 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]
File comment: Small tear-aways visible
IMAG1095b.jpg
IMAG1095b.jpg [ 174.95 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]
File comment: Some layering is visible
IMAG1096b.jpg
IMAG1096b.jpg [ 159.35 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]
File comment: SLA support structure
SLAsupport.JPG
SLAsupport.JPG [ 59.42 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:44 am 
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Really cool PatMat!

I haven't looked through it yet. I just wanted to respond so that it would show up on my posts list.

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1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:17 pm 
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So when are you going to post your Icebreaker? It would make a nice addition to this board as well!

This stuff looks pretty cool, although I kind of expected that the thin material could become a problem, the same can be seen on Rdutnell's propellors.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:01 pm 
Hello Pat. Nice choice for a model.. Any plans to do a working RC version. I bet she would look good out on the open water.

Andy :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:43 am 
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This is a GREAT thread. Much of it sounds familiar.

I've got 2 CAD builds going, my first endeavors into 3D modeling;

USS Greenling (SSN-614) - I actually designed two, one without detail and one with. The one without detail has been printed, the one with detail is waiting. - viewtopic.php?f=59&t=125875

USS Batfish (SS-310) - Design in progress. - http://www.subcommittee.com/phpBB3/view ... 35&t=11415

Too bad that TBowman has a $300 minimum. Maybe we can pool our models to make an order?

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1/144 USS Greenling (SSN-614) - ACAD/3D Printing
1/144 USS Batfish (SS-310) - ACAD/3D Printing


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:47 am 
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Hi Pat To generate a full hull using 3D printing is just amazing . This has great potential .
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Technology certainly does move fast. I am 60 years old now and I can remember the days of buying those vintage Revell kits from the 5 & 10 store so many years ago. That was a real treat for me back then. I guess I am still old school. I use basic hand tools in my works, basic measuring devices, and I think a good eye. I use P/E, and cast resin or metal parts that I don't make myself. I still have my trusty Vac-U Form! Are we "old school" folks destined to go by the way of the steam engine? How long will it be before what we have learned over the years, and our skills, to be lost to faster, better, cheaper? I feel as though our days, at least mine are numbered. This is a very interesting thread, close to a replicating machine. Alas, some of us are still human........ I'll go back to my X-Acto knife and my files now.....Thank-you......

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Location: La Crosse, WI
I don't mean to steer this too far away from the HERO-class Patrol Boat (which is a pretty cool project that is being well executed, by the way), but I did want to comment in more general terms about using CAD and 3D printing, scratch building and the art of modeling.

An "old school" or "traditional" scratch builder's skills shine during the construction of the physical model. They start with a blank canvas, reference materials and raw materials. Then, using only their their mind, hands and tools they manipulate wood, styrene, metal, etc into intricate shapes that, when assembled and painted, become a scale representation of a ship.

In the case of "new school" modeling the builder's skills shine before the physical modeling starts. They too start with a blank canvas and reference materials. Their raw materials are lines and polygons and arcs, but like traditional scratch builders they use their mind, hands and tools to create the same intricate shapes that, when assembled become a scale representation of a ship.

That's where the differences end, in my opinion. Both types of modelers have the same issues with shape, fit of pieces, degrees of correctness, degrees of detail, etc. Both types of modelers require many of the same skills-an eye for detail, the patience to see a project thru, the ability to break a seemingly impossibly large project into smaller projects, problem solving, abstract thought, etc. Some skills used by a more traditional scratch builder may be de-emphasized a bit, but they are offset by the unique skills required to model on a computer. At the end of the day, both are artistic masters in their own medium, much like a painter and a sculptor are.

Now, if Pat prints me out the pieces for a HERO-class Patrol Boat from his design and I assemble them, I haven't scratch built anything. I've built a kit just like I have when I build something from Trumpeter or Dragon or Revell or whomever. But in this case, Pat has built both the computer and physical model, and because the computer model was built by him from scratch, I think he's as much a scratch builder as anyone.

Chris


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:06 pm 
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I would totally agree........

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:59 pm 
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You old school guys have it made. You can hand sand your hull until you get the shape just right. That's easier said than done in 3D. Getting a perfect lofted shape to form a ship hull will drain the brain! I have never had one that went well at first. Although we do have one certain advantage over you, it's called the undo command!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Location: Michigan
And now Bill, don't go playing the Old Fogey card on us! I'm only 4 years your junior, and I've embraced the new tech 99%! And I'm having a blast with it, and ain't that what a hobby is all about?

Not embracing 100%, because like any other tool, it has its uses and its shortcomings. And even though I've decided to build this project ALMOST completely in 3DP, I'll be the first to say that "mixed media" is sometimes better. On my 1:32 Foundation Franklin, I used 3DP for the tricky cowl ventilators... but brass tube for their "stalks", and cast resin fittings from my own hand built masters for the turning gears. Whatever works!

The old ways are going away? Don't think so. My Sikuliaq ice breaker has a wood hull, but 3DP pilot house and cranes, and I put all my machine tools to work to build the brass azimuthing drives.

Is it bad if an old way becomes truly obsolete? Let's see, when it's 98° there in Florida, do you feel sorry that you're not demonstrating your horsemanship, instead of cruising in an air conditioned car? :cool_1:

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Get your boats wet!
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Shapeways Shop: [redacted]
MWS Gallery: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Pat-Matthews/user-index.html


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:10 pm 
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OK, here's something you might appreciate... 3DP stud link chain!

This is 36" of 0.9mm "wire" links (5.4mm overall length for each link). This about the right size for 1:96 battleships. This is a true 7 links per inch. The smallest metal stud link chain I'm aware of, from Cornwall, is 5.5 links/inch:
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/aca ... hains.html

Tomorrow, I'm getting some at 0.6mm wire, 3.6mm link length... which is the smallest Shapeways will agree to print for me. Can't wait to see THAT!

Now, maybe you'd like to cut little pieces of wire to solder inside your open link chain, instead? :thumbs_up_1:


Attachments:
File comment: 3 feet of 0.9mm wire, 5.4mm long links
a01779.JPG
a01779.JPG [ 107.95 KiB | Viewed 1004 times ]
File comment: Close up of the 0.9mm links
a01780.JPG
a01780.JPG [ 113.62 KiB | Viewed 1004 times ]
File comment: 7 links/inch
a01782.JPG
a01782.JPG [ 103.85 KiB | Viewed 996 times ]

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MWS Gallery: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Pat-Matthews/user-index.html
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:07 pm 
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that gives new meaning to the phrase Real Chain! Nice work.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:03 am 
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Fascinating stuff. The model of the OP looks great and I'll be interested to see how the build progresses.
Part of this, of course, will be to understand the properties of the materials, what sticks them to each other and to other materials, how they take primers/paints etc. I'm also wondering how thermally stable they might be.

While I live some where that we pray for an occasional day by the pond-side where our models are at risk of warping due to high sunlight, the same is not tru of many on the board. If the model is an r/c, out-door creation will the materials be stable enough? Not a criticism, after all sheet styrene can be a nightmare!

As for skills? I am still trying to figure out the CAD world, without which the 3D printing becomes tricky! It's a different way of working, compared to 2D drawing with a pencil on paper and preparation is everything. Once I do, we have an excellent facility at the Lighthouse in Central Glasgow, there they have 3D printers of varying resolutions, laser cutters etc etc all for use by members.

If I ever get time to sit down and master this technique it could be great for those of us with jobs that drag us around the world, leaving minimal time to build, imagine working on parts for your latest model from a hotel room or airline seat?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:08 am 
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Engineering Model is very nice :smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:58 am 
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As mentioned in my previous posts on this amazing work, I'm no Luddite as I have been following this thread with eager interest. .Like Bill my basic tool is the modelling knife and a wee bit of lateral thinking and for me the basic task of just sorting out suitable material for a project and physically transforming that material into another shape can bring it's own satisfaction or the opposite . In fact my trash can is testimony to that often having more badly transformed parts that I care to admit. I have seen the results first-hand the power and precision of 3D work at a number of our modelling seminars. Yet after one session dealing with the 3D printing of a Sea Wolf six box missile launcher project one modeller interjected with the just two word "It's flawless" . Perhaps that’s the difference between the future and the past but for me making mistakes and learning by my mistakes is of course part of my past but would I gain the same satisfaction producing a perfect job every time ? The future even in model making has the ability to change what we do and how we do it often in unexpected ways one day even 3D printing will be like the modelling knife a tool of the past.
Dave Wooley :cool_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:19 am 
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hi all ,i to follow bill and dave 's way.as for computer 3 d it is beyond me.i would like to see plans drawen in 3 d .trying to follow 2 diamentional plans is sometimes frustrating,and you only get to see one side of a profile.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:46 am 
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I've done a couple of simple designs and had them made by shapeways.

The model boat one is a WW2 dan buoy for my Revel Flower Class model -
Image

I used a free Cad program, called "FreeCad" to draw the design. This program works with 3D shapes which you can merge and crop to make the desired shapes. I find this quite easy to work with, compared to other CAD programs I've tried(I have not tried AutoCad).

The program can be downloaded from here -
https://sourceforge.net/projects/free-c ... =directory


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:33 am 
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Can you PLEASE show us your printing machine?

Did you build it?
Will any of the "free" drawing programs work with a MAC computer?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:27 am 
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Is that a question to me? If so:

1, 2: No, and no.
I don't own a printer and probably never will. And unless your hobby is building cheap machines that make POS parts, you shouldn't either. Machines which have the capability of making decent model parts have too many zeroes in their price for you and me to consider. That's why I go to shops that have the equipment and sell time on them. http://www.shapeways.com would be a good place to start.


3. I imagine there must be something that would work on one of them fruity compooters. But if you have to ask, i suspect you have a LONG road ahead to get to the point where you're making usable models. But you can do it! Good luck...

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Get your boats wet!
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Shapeways Shop: [redacted]
MWS Gallery: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Pat-Matthews/user-index.html


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