NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

[wefalck]

Somehow missed this log so far. Interesting subject. These liners made me always dream looking at my childhood picture books and clockwork models I had.

I have been experimenting with deck-planking in my 2D-CAD-software as well, where you can change subtly the colour and hue of individual planks. My main concern, however, has the potential fading of the colours with time.

Still, a printed deck is a much better option, as those cast resin or laser-engraved wood ones that look like freshly plowed fields close-up.

[marijn van gils]

Congrats on finding a solution to that problem Jim!

And many thanks for sharing!

[JIM BAUMANN]

well, .... still no tangible building per se

as I am...-- still preparing and fiddling....

(maybe more like prevaricating and procrastinating !)

the funnels have received some colour-

and I have bought a new airbrush )



The new hull and upper deck casting have arrived from Blue Ridge models--Thank you Brandon--==> A1 gentlemen!
( the originals had a few casting issues--hence the relentless experimentation with abandon on the ' old' hull with the PE overlays )

I have commissioned more PE---well actually the same PE...-- more precisely the promenade window overlays ( again !)
but slightly re-drawn with slightly thicker window mullion bars and this time being etched in stainless steel...

as the brass was a bit weak in " vertical column"-

-ie when manipulating the overlay strips, the vertical window dividing strips ( mullions) often buckled and/ or got a bit distorted / bent

Stainless steel is much stronger--so should give a crisper result

On the subject of promenade overlays..-- I have for the last 2 weeks continued to - every day -take the model from cold room to warm room.
==> There appears to be no parting of the glue , nor any visible distortion of the metal overlay.
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whilst having the PE re-drawn for the stainless frets , I also took the opportunity of getting a new bridge front and upper bridge sides drawn;

Mainly as the casting did not have quite sharply enough defined windows for my liking...

compared to the real thing

The bridge side windows had a very different layout from port to starboard, hence these are being done as PE overlays also, so that the sharpness would match!

over-thinking and over-planning maybe....


but...


I have been --for some time-- making myself unhappy with the idea of the difficulties potentially encountered in creating the aft deck column lamps-
a distinctive feature for the early version of the ship

I could ..." maybe/probably " have create one quite well--but would almost certainly fail to make six exactly matching.


The kit items, considering how small they are were ok but overly simplified.

========================================================================================================


enter a 3-D printing designer with a high quality printer !

( he / she (?!) wishes to remain anonymous for the moment...)

wohoo!

(I shall mount these on a taller metal -wire column...)

more soon!

Jim Baumann

[wefalck]

Ah Jim is entering 21st century technology Looking forward to see your etched parts, as I am re-entering this realm too right now - spending most of my spare time drawing, rather than building - another form of procrastination ?

[marijn van gils]

Very nice 'preparations' Jim!

Good choice to go with stainless steel I think for the window overlays. That should be more forgiving too when filling and sanding to fair them into the hull.
And the airbrush seems to be working out fine too!

[zs180]

Again something new and so interesting!
Even the preparations are awe-inspiring and full of original solutions.
I enjoy following your builds no end!

[Dan K]

Very impressive prep work. Those lights are outstanding.

[JIM BAUMANN]

Thank you all for your kind words!

the Christmas period has been busy with family, eating, parties and classic car meetings...

I have been busy with the model also...--though it seems mostly in a preparatory fashion
and the usual bore of removing resin things, and re-making things to be better.

If anything the ( new ) hull casting looked like it had suffered war damage !
chunks of resin removed, bits off, broken and quite qa lot of filler etc

some photos of this shortly...

In the meantime ...

...The early version of the ship--with the "zig zag " seating ( and the above mentioned lamps)

My casting of this deck was not all that flat , bathing in hot water and heating made it flatter, but still not that good.

I also did still not much like the seating, as the casting on the undercuts was a bit lumpy

and in any case the seating would make the fitting of the paper deck rather more challenging (!!)
hence off they came...

I planned to re-mount the seating on the new deck coverings on styrene strip plinths to regain some sharpness

but cut around and clean up as I wanted--they did not look quite sharp enough .
( more precisely I could not get them sharp enough

Most models of this ship in this fit , even in in much larger scales, always seem to depict the seating in too lumpy a fashion

So I had some replacements 3_D printed!

meanwhile-- the upper hull casting ....


Disclaimer!

( in my opinion)

==> by my observations of port-hole heights versus red line versus waterline and measurements off a scaled plan
appears to have been separated from its lower hull casting at the top of the red boot-top line

hence ==> as a waterline ship using the upper hull casting as the WATERLINE-- the model would be too low
( I believe) ...
no problem with a full hull

I also wish to depict the ship at speed -- so wish to show some underwater flashes in the water troughs

hence I added a surround of block strip styrene around the entire bottom of the hull and sanded this to the correct shape and profile as a continuation
of the hull shape
( a surprisingly large amount of work and not as easy as it seemed at first sight ( undercuts and bow hollows) (!)

having opened up carefully cleaned and squared the stern galleries
( while trying to devise a way of thinning the wall thickness's whilst retaining structural integrity aft
( no answer yet ! )

and been rather bothered by the large amount of 3 D printing lines left behind

which are the very devil to clean up in this kind of area
===================================================================

[JIM BAUMANN]

I turned my attention - for light relief (?!) to making the deck-templates

There are a a lot of decks!
and...

more fiddly and tricky then expected again-- no quick build here for me alas it seems !

The fwd well deck had a quite a convulated process to get 1 x end result template

others were simpler

some need a lot of fiddling to get right...

But all of them needed careful alignment to get squared with the planking runs

( often with a repeat cut needed --easy to be sightly out of alignemet !! )


or equally frustrating - a small bit of pulling to the upper layer of paper... !

all these decks were printed on 100 g dead flat high quality non-grained paper on my home ink-jet ( canon MG 3600)
using the best quality print it had.

I did try a commercial laser printer ( horrid result) along with other printers-with no significantly noticeable improvement over my own home efforts

BUT... once marked and cut

I varnished the undersides with Humbrol matt-kote first
and then turned them over and varnished the tops also


so as to make the paper decks impervious to moisture or dis-colouration when gluing...

which will be a imminent in-near-future report!

More soon

JIM B

[EJFoeth]

Very good Not so easy this deck approach...

[JIM BAUMANN]

>>>>> Very good --Not so easy this deck approach... <<<<

indeed...!

anyhow-- onwards-- still removing more than adding it seems.

so as to allow the PE and the paper deck to sit 'down'--in addition to having pared the decks down to accomodate the paper.

I have been digging out at the base at the superstructure verticals.

The resin is quite a soft variety-- so the digging is not terribly elegant or " engineery " in appearance

but it is results that count ... ( I hope! )

I have now pre-bent the superstructure sides in stainless steel
a rather more demanding task than in brass... (!)
with considerable downward pressure being used when rolling the shafts across the PE
( on a post-it note block--which has very slight 'give' in it...)

and then painted them and other superstructure PE

( its all quite large compared to my usual milieu of tiny pre- dreadnought ships!

on a personal ranting note...

I am still somewhat irritated by the coarseness of 3 D printing
( this is a general malaise across many manufacturers )

( especially in window recesses-- which compounded with somewhat ' soft ' casting makes it all just that bit harder
with significant risk of damage.

Nothing and no damage is irretrievable-- but ...

( I note that the latest release by Combrig ( Almaz) suffers the same problem in the recessed panel work
( photo from review here at MW.com )

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... almaz.html

( some of the cleaning between window frames and panelling could be challenging!!

now I could understand if that was as good as it gets...

but ....

I have just had some ships boats printed for Normandie ( more of that in depth later in the build)

looks pretty smooth to me..!

food for thought!

onwards !!

JB

[EJFoeth]

I am still somewhat irritated by the coarseness of 3 D printing

My main reason to stay away... however, the latest by Modelmonkey and Blackcatmodels seems to indicate this is now a thing of the past. When done well! Time to do some more drilling...

[s4usea]

I am still somewhat irritated by the coarseness of 3 D printing

My main reason to stay away... however, the latest by Modelmonkey and Blackcatmodels seems to indicate this is now a thing of the past. When done well! Time to do some more drilling...

Have you used an air eraser on the 3D parts? Seems to solve the problem...

[JIM BAUMANN]

>> s4usea wrote: Have you used an air eraser on the 3D parts? Seems to solve the problem...<<<

Fair comment-- but it strikes me that it would be good practice at the manufacturers end
to remove the stepping issue just the once off the 3-D masters

BEFORE making moulds ...

Personally I would be happy to pay a premium for a better product that does not require miniature shot blasting of every component.
but anyhow-, - its a tool I shall acquire for future ref--thank you for advice / heads up!
==============================================================

meanwhile...

steps fwd and back...

fwd first!

I have continued observing the adhesion versus the thermal expansion issues
on my test-hull

and my findings ....of apply PE to resin casting when metal and resin are cold at just under 10 degrees C --

and pleasingly-- it seems to have worked as planned ( and desired !) on the new stainless steel also

( despite s/s having a lower expansion ratio than the brass PE of the earlier previous experiments)

Backwards....

Boringly( fro time and my wallet! )

I have commissioned another huge sheet of stainless steel PE to replace the recently made one....
of the same promenade overlays
( this is not a cheap Normandie...)!!

but with a few subtle modifications and improvements.

I probably could have gotten away with it on another ship that was more cluttered( ie warship/ sailing ship / cargo ship

but on this clean-lined hulk every flaw --in build and accuracy -- will haunt me otherwise for the rest of my days...!

but while I await the new PE

it has given me the opportunity to study the ship in ever greater detail and work out the best approach to certain aspects.

Fwd again I think!

I was bothered a bit that my fwd window overlays may render the inner PE window frame bars to be too far recessed.

this was the first one I did in the " actual " hull ( having made quite a few on the test-hull ! )
( The tiny , bendy and fragile pre-painted PE was floated on to matt varnish and jiggled until it was 'right'
The " cracks "were " filled " with white paint on brush

note that this will all be contained within the mullion and frame overlay and present a sharp apperaamce hopefully

as to excessive window recess.... I think I need not have worried too much

phew!

[s4usea]

Fair comment-- but it strikes me that it would be good practice at the manufacturers end
to remove the stepping issue just the once off the 3-D masters

BEFORE making moulds ...

Personally I would be happy to pay a premium for a better product that does not require miniature shot blasting of every component.
but anyhow-, - its a tool I shall acquire for future ref--thank you for advice / heads up!

I agree, but until they do we have to do the best with what we have.

I got a Paasche one on eBay for pretty cheap.

But I realize that I never really need a reason to buy a new tool...

[Rob]

That build looks like a lot of hassle considering it is a very expensive kit

[Bouncy70]

That build looks like a lot of hassle considering it is a very expensive kit

I think that has more to do with it being Jim, and less to do with it being the Normandie...

[JIM BAUMANN]

LOL !!!

yes... never one to build out of the box ...

I feel compelled to optimise and improve beyond the normal and reasonable!

@ Rob

You know me ...

@ Boncy 70

Ha! probably THE perfect summation of the situation...


There is actually quite a lot of stuff going on- it is going in the right direction now...

-I just need to get the photos in order...
more soon!
JIM B

[JIM BAUMANN]

sooooo...

some tangible steps fwd

My original hull casting had a rather dished life=boat deck deck, which runs from fwd to right aft.
==> which was alas noticeable to the naked eye

The deck superstructure that sits atop that , tediously had a warp in its horizontal plane,
that I failed to straighten with heat , oven and hot water

Now then... Credit where credit is due;

an e-mail with a photo and a voice-call to Brandon @ Freetimes Hobbies resulted in a
pretty speedy transatlantic service , no quibbles and with a new hull and superstructure casting being despatched at top speed.
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so onwards;

The new custom ( Mk3 and I think final! ) Photo-etch fret is being drawn up right now, and will be etched within 2 weeks .
again in stainless steel , again incorporating the re-re-redesigned promenade windows and new curved aft window galleries to match,
with a few subtle modifications, one of which brought about as a result of the differing radius build up when overlaying metal onto resin...

....and the surprising difference that the thickness of the paint on the mullions had ...



briefly as below

so that all the cast resin mullions and the PE mullions match exactly--(!)
the distance between the vertical mullions has to be increased gradually and fractionally

the end result looks like this on the PE drawing-- and as a "Fail-Safe" back-up.....
the same piece will be drawn with a 0.3 mm stretch-- just in case!

so no real progress to be had on the hull itself-- as without the new PE I cannot really proceed elsewhere,
though much preparatory work has been done, with much PEnedingand trimming...

more report thereto soon.

In the meantime , the resin davits--whilst correct in shape -- but hard to get them REALLY sharp will be replaced with
these PE items with a centrefold at the upper end ,
==> this will allow easy demarcation when painting the inside faces--which were BLACK

Endless study of the photos has resulted in my having a fairly good knowledge of the entire external areas oif the ship.
( I do upon occasion also think about other stuff too !! )

The next stage will be installing all the window frames and overlays to the boat deck casting, this be quite quite a fiddly adventure in itself!
more soon!

JIM B

[marijn van gils]

Great progress Jim!
Your thorough and methodical approach is sure to result in a fantastic model! The use of new techniques is most interesting. Thanks a lot for sharing!

I too often wonder why manufacturers don't remove the inherent deficiencies of 3D printing from their masters before production casting. Maybe most modellers don't care?
I don't feel an air eraser is the perfect solution, as it will soften surrounding detail too.
But luckily the 3D-printing technology is improving rapidly, and I have seen some artifact-free results too. But it depends of the subjects' shapes too...