NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

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JIM BAUMANN
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

well-- a few days later-- and more pertinently over 800 portholes later .... (!!! )
P1240751.jpg
with a wastage rate of imperfectly made portholes of around 30 %...




I question my sanity!

anyhow- now the dull pastime of backfilling the imperfections ( there seem to be plenty arghhh! )
with paint continues --for a while..

and then I have the anti-pleasure of adding around 800 eyebrows.... for the row of oval windows in the black section

and all the rows of portholes...--only the undercut ones at the stern and extreme bow had no eyebrows...



i shall be back in due course ... :wave_1:
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
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JIM BAUMANN
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

my last update on this 24 June... arghhh!--

well in mitigation we actually had an almost hot summer, classic cars and holidays et al caused
a bit of a squeeze on model ship time...

but there has been " some " progress

but ....alas not much in truth... :scratch:

BUT...
I have now completed ALL the eyebrows =
= about 1100 or more all told -with the round and square topped variants.


zeyebrows.jpg

and add some much needed texture to the models otherwise very bland hull surface.
In oblique angled photos of the real ship they are distinctly visible
and a distinctive relief feature
Normandie10.jpg
Of course on the model it is all pretty overscale-
especially when viewed very close up... :Mad_6:

but looking at the model as a sum total--it does -in my view work


Placing the eyebrows in the black area I found that simply seeing the square topped ones to align-- pretty hard--
so gave them a light airbrush dusting of white to assist alignment.
P1250191.jpg
P1250192.jpg

I could no longer procrastinate... especially as all the superstructure sub assemblies are already made and mostly completed...

so applied the 'anti-fouling'-- using the very slight stepline of my added strip around the bottom..
.( remember ? ==> now 10 months ago !!! ) on page 2

a quick recap:

Disclaimer!

( in my opinion)

==> by my observations of port-hole heights versus red line versus waterline and measurements off a scaled plan
it appears that the upper casting join to the lower hull casting
appears to have been split at the top of the red boot-top line

hence ==> as a waterline ship using the upper hull casting as the WATERLINE-- the model would be sitting too low in the water
( I believe) ...

no problem with a full hull though !

I also wish to depict the ship at speed -- so wish to show the red underwater in the midships wave trough

hence I added a surround of block strip styrene around the entire bottom of the hull and sanded this to the correct shape and profile as a continuation
of the hull shape



Image







I still am convinced I am right... :big_grin:
=============================

....especially when looking at this type of image--which distinctly shows the lower porthole row ( non-opening--with the ring surround)
some way above the calm water
Normandie5.jpg
Normandie 2.jpg
The waterline was applied as a red tape, then toned down with a wash of a duller red enamel paint and a second wash of grey watercolour
( so as to NOT allow the layer washes to attack each other!)

to simulate the " chalking " by the salt
P1060515.jpg

whilst the ball was rolling--and so as not to loose impetus ( again..!�)

I have prepared the sea scape onto the base of her glass-case.

the next step will be to paint the promenade deck overhang of the casting black
==> and then refrigerate the hull ( and the stainless steel promenade overlay window PE )

( remember==> the issue of thermal expansion coefficients... metal PE rippling/ becoming wavy/ snaking on resin as the hull contracts in colder temperatures
due to differing expansion and contraction rates of different materials ( metal versus resin )


I do and am still a wee bit daunted
:eyes_spinning:

my findings were ;

apply cold metal onto cold resin with a flexible adhesive--worked well last winter

so watch this space... ( hopefully! )

JIM B
=====================================================================

a recap :

have continued observing the adhesion versus the thermal expansion issues
on my test-hull

and my findings ....of apply PE to resin casting when metal and resin are cold at just under 10 degrees C --

and pleasingly-- it seems to have worked as planned ( and desired !) on the new stainless steel also



cold

Image

hot

Image
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....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
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wefalck
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by wefalck »

I was already wondering, what happened to the project, but thought life might have got in the way ... summer has been hot in places in Europe this year, not very conducive to work in the workshop.
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Frank Spahr
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by Frank Spahr »

Best of luck!

I can but admire the rigorosity of your dedication, and the very, very high level of skills on display.

All the best from

Frank
AKA "Doc Bear" (a bear of very little brain ...)
VMF'06 - German Gamblers
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

Thank you Wefalck and Frank, fortitude indeed I will need....

RotRing pen Ink... I have been using it for years in RotRing pens for blacking portholes etc...
great stuff great pen...

only to find that I mixed up my Rotring permanent ink bottle on the latest refill for an elderly bottle of non-permanent RotRing ink

So after spraying the hull with my Winsor and Newton Artists water-based matt varnish to seal the matt black paint etc on the hull...


This is what a really crap afternoons work looks like... :censored_2: :censored_2: :mad_2: :Mad_5: :Mad_6:

images below

so now ...a glass of red and an early night....
to try and win back the energy, strength and the will to live try and rescue it .....


Good night
JB
Attachments
P1060526.jpg
P1060528.jpg
P1060527.jpg
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
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Pieter
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by Pieter »

If it is Rotring non-permanent ink some careful work with distilled water and cotton swabs should be able to cure it.
marijn van gils
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by marijn van gils »

Aaaaarg!!!!! Not fun!

I hope it is not ingrained in the cured varnish, and you can clean it of (leaving a nice pin-wash maybe :) ).
Otherwise, some white paint will solve the problem.
But not fun...
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

>>>> @ marijinn .....==> I hope it is not ingrained in the cured varnish, <<<<

It is... and has settled nicely into the white enamel.

I have been scraping and paring minute shavings for the last 3 days with a variety of scalpels--
as white painted over-- the black ink still bled through and made a shade of grey...

I usually never count hours , but it is well over 15 hours so far.. ( arghh! )

One side is ok and rescued to an acceptable level....
-the other is still wok in progress....

Pinwash indeed ... hah hahah ! :big_grin:
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
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bgire
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by bgire »

Hi Jim,
Go away from the Ol' Rotrings and go with Molotow Blackliner range of technical pens:
https://shop.molotow.com/en/molotowtm-b ... set-1.html

Use them as you did with Rotrings. Smallest pen is very suitable for small portholes.
Black ink will perfectly cover the white paint and WON't spread all around.
In addition this acrylic ink won't develop cracks as Rotring China ink does with time.

Cheers!
_Bruno
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Frank Spahr
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by Frank Spahr »

Oh noo ...

Best of luck with repairing this, Jim - 15 hours of trying to get it done sounds like modeling hell to me.

Fingers firmly crossed

Frank
AKA "Doc Bear" (a bear of very little brain ...)
VMF'06 - German Gamblers
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Dan K
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by Dan K »

I know you will persevere in this, Jim. Otherwise, exquisite detailing.
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

Thank you all for your positive comments and sympathies - and advice--on and off this thread!


I have mostly now rescued the windows to stage it was at before

==========================================================================================

I was unable to put it off for any longer....
almost 1 year later (!! )
procrastination over--

and a nice cold spell of weather meant I would not need to refrigerate the hull.

I placed the model in our sewing workshop overnight-- outside temperature was 08 degrees C

and inside the workshop overnight it dropped to around 10-11 degrees and the model reached pretty much that also
P1060562.jpg

I had already secured the long promenade window strips with CA at the curved fwd end to anchor them
P1060564.jpg

and now needed to glue on the long PE strips with the flexible ' canopy' glue
Image


My experimentation , outsiders review of the canopy glue used with PE

... and my findings ....( from last December (!!!! ) recap here :

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=168156#p748951


Back to the present--

blade sharpened-to-chisel shaped point cocktail sticks where used to apply the canopy glue to top and bottom edges of the strip
--avoiding the window areas in between

...( a litte tricky ! )

The adhesive grabs very well--so I had to ensure the painted PE was lifted clear



as I proceeded... steadily----

==> with teeth chattering --not nerves-...just plain damn cold !
P1060565.jpg



If all this does prevent thermo expansion issues of snaing/ buckling etc --

then the end effect probably is worth it !
P1060569.jpg
P1060566.jpg
Once both sides were secured and the ends taped,

careful back filling of adhesives in the voids was done from underneath !

( just as well the ship is not mounted in her seascape yet...!!! :big_grin:
P1060571.jpg


localised weighing down helped keep it in plane
P1060572.jpg
I shall now wait and see ...
Tomorrow evening the hull will be slowly warmed...
we shall see!

I will report back -hopefully with good news--- and thereby me still retaining the will to live !!!


wish me luck :wave_1:

JB
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by wefalck »

I oblige and wish you luck :thumbs_up_1:
Eberhard

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bgire
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by bgire »

Good luck Jim... and please don't take this opportunity to get a cold :thumbs_up_1:
_Bruno
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by Goodwood »

I feel like every time I'm following one of Jim's builds, it's like auditing a master class in model building, what with all the ground-breaking techniques he uses in every thread.

Honestly Jim, you should be collecting tuition... :thumbs_up_1:
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Frank Spahr
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by Frank Spahr »

I also do wish you the very best of luck with this and any further steps in construction!

This sure is a master class in ship modeling, and goes a long way to prove how much thought and dedication (and risk of exposure ...) you are putting into your builds.
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

Good evening all gents ! ( and any ladies...)

Well-- the weather in the UK is now cold

so the hull and its promenade deck overlays are experiencing the full gamut of
( very !) warm central heated evenings , pleasant daytime heating

and stone cold nights ( heating goes off at 11:30 pm and comes on at 8am)
modelroom has large windows and is not well insulated-
-so when heating goes off temperature falls drops very effectively to around 10 -12 deg C deg

I have studied the hull when cold at night ( with some trepidation in case of ' snaking')
and in the very warm evenings in the modelroom et al

amd I can report no sign of differential movement that is visible.
===========================================

In the meantime I have been busy preparing the lifeboats; the kit items being rather undersized
and not completely correct in shape-
but the biggest issue was that the kit lifeboats are single boats--whereas the real ship has smaller boats nested inside the larger boats
gbbicdcldlhkmgkf.jpg
and in the early version--at all times the boats had a cover that went over both boats

( light grey canvas for the pre-rebuild-- and a rather lurid orange for the second half of her career )
P1040797.jpg
8f96fa8b1a983e18df0a4cc2bb7fe333.jpg

the launching methodology for the nested boats is illustrated here
P1040797.jpg
I am fortunate in actually having a ( dog-eared!)
copy of the 'SHIPBUILDER Magazine of 1935 )

so was able to see how the real boats should look...
P1040797.jpg
Now I was also fortunate in having a " friend " who drew and 3-D printed the required boats ,



:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :big_grin: :cool_2:
P1250239.jpg
P1250247.jpg

in fact more than double the number required were printed.

just as well-- !!! as despite effective packing from France-- the combined postal carriers of France and the UK had contrived
to drop something heavy on my boats- :Mad_6: - the result being a pretty spectacular rate of breakage of rudders and screws.==> requiring careful, finicky repairs
P1250254 (1).jpg
simply finding and keeping the broken parts-( On the sticky part of a post it note! )
-and identifying which boat had which rudder ( almost forensic examination of break patterns...!)
P1250262.jpg
the boats were attached to the printing runner at the bows
which was a tricky bit of cleaning without loosing the contours of the bow and hull
P1250253 (1).jpg
handling the detached boats was another challenge
P1250253 (1).jpg

after clean up they were impaled on pushpins red and green...
The pin hole will not be visible ( on the inboard under side ) on the installed boat in the davits ( at least not without and endoscope and a mirror!!�)
P1250276 (1).jpg
I prepared double the required number so as to be able to pick and choose the best ones
( some of them had small printing defects which needed filling )
P1250380.jpg
the airbrush was unable to shift the 3-D print material waste from paring,
sticky>?)

so resorted to self help tack sticks !!
P1250392.jpg
P1250395.jpg
They have had a coat of light grey as a guide coats which highlighted where more work was needed...

2 x white coats and the canvas next
will update.

in the meantime some other progress...
P1250237.jpg
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
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Frank Spahr
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by Frank Spahr »

Good to hear about the resin/PE joint proving to be sturdy and resistant to thermal changes!

Those new printed boats look like a very welcome improvement, too bad about the breakage, though. With all the info you have on the boats and the davits, they should be a great addition to the model.
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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

Thank you for your words of encouragement Frank !

its a process of whittling the finalists down...

18 port-side boats that were deemed good enough actually need 13 per side
P1250422.jpg
The processing was as follows, using a pencil ( H 3 pencil sanded to a chisel point on 2000 grit sandpaper)
Draw on on cover tie lines with pencil, accentuate the stem/keel/stern post deadwood with a fine pencil line
Draw on the hinge twixt rudder and sternpost, outline the screw aperture with pencil
Outline the cover tie down triangular gussets with pencil ( simulates the "stand off " shadow ( I reckon anyhow! :big_grin: )
Paint the gussets and the top of the covers.

P1250484.jpg
P1250481.jpg
When dry--
with pencil dust on brush outline the shape of the cover over the nested smaller boat .
Then wipe with thinners on brush to soften the outlines and add a bit of colour variance
with a white paint-and-thinners wash tone down the cover ties and outlines etc
P1250500.jpg


P1250495.jpg

Discard the less happy lifeboats !


Still to do....
paint the screws a dull dark beige to simulate lightly tarnished brass
and touch up where needed.

Oh... and repeat the whole process for the starboard side ... ! :Mad_6:
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

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Re: NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

Post by JIM BAUMANN »

The two seaboats at the fwd end of the boat deck; were open -without covers.
6de3a206ecc58c2163f451291eb41ee4.jpg


The original kit resin boats were not a bad outline shape, but a bit fat in the beam and of course solid topped.
The fatness was due to the cast on cover tie downs being rather thick
P1250441.jpg
P1250437.jpg

Once this was pared away the boats were a pretty good shape
There-after it was time to hollow them out....

This was fraught--but successful ==> with small burr in a motor tool
P1250467.jpg


and thereafter the coamings will be be scraped thinner with a blade


More on this soon...
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com
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