Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[bigjimslade]

Was the difference in boot topping width present during WWII?

Back of nevelope calculation suggest 20" of added imersion would correspond to 3000 tons of added displacement. were Wisconsin and Missouri 3000 tons heavier?

Those boot topping figures are from an 8/18/41 painting plan with the latest update 6/8/44. The MO/WI directions were added 7/28/43.

There was more armor on the last four Iowa class battleships than on the first two because the Washington and London Treaties were dead when it came time to order their armor.

The transverse armor on the Iowa and New Jersey was 11.3" and 14-1/2" on the Missouri and Wisconsin. The splinter deck and gun tubs were 5/8" on the IA/NJ and 3/4" on the MO/WI.

I calculate the transverse armor is about 6800 ft-sq. x 3.2 x 40 lbs/sq-ft that gives 435 tons.
The splinter deck is about 22,614 ft-sq x 5 lbs/sq-ft = 56 tons.

I don't think that is coming close to 3000 tons. It might have come from somewhere else.

Not that the bottom of the boot topping on the last four ships is at the same level as the waterline of the IA/NJ (which is slightly higher than the designed waterline).

BTW: I am trying to post the things that I find that appear to be of the most use to modelers. I can only post a small subset of what I uncover just due to volume and I am hampered by the 1200 maximum pixel width here. If you have any requests, let me know and I will try to accommodate.

[bigjimslade]

Here is an atypical example of the type of joint that occurs frequently in the Iowa class.

My red line marks the start of the shaft casting. The plating is welded flush to the casting. Forward of the casting is the one-plate D2 strake. Below that are the D and C1 strakes. The D1 strake has a riveted, overlap joint with the strakes below. But then its lower aft corner needs to be flush. The underlap has to be shaved down to allow this. That's a lot of machining for a joint that provides zero benefit. The Kentucky and Illinois were welded flush here.

The typical example of this joint occurs on the bottom at places where strakes divided to create T-shaped joints. Where B overlaps A at the side but is flush with A at the end you get the same kind of corner problem.

|A
A |-------
|B

[chuck]

The anti-corrosion anodes seem to be cut only roughly to similar sizes and then riveted with no more than a nod to careful alignment.

The part of the aft hull illustrated seems to contain complex curves, where the same plate is convex along one direction and concave in the perpendicular direction. Also there are radical changes to radius of curvature over a short distance. I think it would be difficult to align pre-drill the plates with rivet holes without computer modeling. The machining the excess might be necessary anyway just to make sure all plates along the seams meet.

[bigjimslade]

This illustrates the moulded lines of that area. It is laid out a a series of three interlocking arcs.

The aft part of the bossing is part of a large casting. The forward part of the bossing would have to have been shaped. It is 3/4" thick so that would have been no easy task.

[Sean_the_Nailer]

BigJimSlade,
That picture/drawing above, is that perspective from 'inside' the trough/centerline of the hull? Or is it from outside, under the gunnel's? It would seem to me (comparing with my Tamiya 1:350 model) that it is from outside, but that does not mean the model is correct/accurate.

[Fliger747]

The outboard screw is in the photo foreground, although somewhat out of focus.

[bigjimslade]

BigJimSlade,
That picture/drawing above, is that perspective from 'inside' the trough/centerline of the hull? Or is it from outside, under the gunnel's? It would seem to me (comparing with my Tamiya 1:350 model) that it is from outside, but that does not mean the model is correct/accurate.

That is the outside of the starboard twin keel looking aft. I hope you are not being confused by the AOTS book that shows bossing on the inside (tunnel side) of the keel where these is none. The tunnel side is flat.

[bigjimslade]

I have not found any photographs of the Iowa class propeller shafts. Here is one of CV-67. It is very similar to that of the Iowa class. One difference is that the Iowa class has 14 bolt hole compared to 12 here. Another difference is that there are more thickness variations for bearings on the Iowa class.

Most of the Iowa class segments are 48' long. The longest is 64'. The shortest is 45'-3 3/4"

[bigjimslade]

The hatches on 16-inch turrets 1 and 3 swing down and towards the front face of the turret.
The hatches on turret 2 swing to the rear of the turret.

[James M]

In the picture showing the shafts, there is also the bearing blocks.
Way cool to see those

James

[chuck]

The hatches on 16-inch turrets 1 and 3 swing down and towards the front face of the turret.
The hatches on turret 2 swing to the rear of the turret.

Turret 2 also were built with a catwalk under the hatch so if the crew had to evacuate through the hatch when the turret is trained to one side, they won�t break their legs falling a full deck. I wonder if the hatch swings to the rear to allow the crew to crawl forward on the cat walk So they can reach the foot rails around the barbette and then shimmy to the 01 deck or down by the ladder on the barbette.

[bigjimslade]

Here's Turret No. 2 on the NJ. The main hatch and the platform below have been removed and moved forward. The hinges are in place and painted yellow. The emergency hatch remains in place.

The hatch on Turret No. 1 does not block visitor access to it remains in place.

[bigjimslade]

Here's a drawing I did of the roller bearing assembly. This sits on top of the fixed turret support. The revolving part of the turret sits on this. This revolves when the turret revolves but more slowly.

The surfaces of the bearings are cones The bearings are in groups of six. However, they are not evenly spaced within the groups and the groups have different spacings. The lack of an even spacing was supposed to reduce wear.

[chuck]

Here's a drawing I did of the roller bearing assembly. This sits on top of the fixed turret support. The revolving part of the turret sits on this. This revolves when the turret revolves but more slowly.

The surfaces of the bearings are cones The bearings are in groups of six. However, they are not evenly spaced within the groups and the groups have different spacings. The lack of an even spacing was supposed to reduce wear.

Roller Bearings.jpg

I think uneven spacing makes it unlikely that if the ship is subjected to shock damage and bearing impress dents into the race, the bearing will then get caught in the dents at multiple angles of train.

[bigjimslade]

I think uneven spacing makes it unlikely that if the ship is subjected to shock damage and bearing impress dents into the race, the bearing will then get caught in the dents at multiple angles of train.

That's a good theory.

Here are some more details I have found scouring the blueprints. This photo is from the National Archives and can be found all over the internet so you get get it at much higher resolution. It shows the gun in the process of being fired. The yoke at the end is pulled back from the slide so some of the barrel is exposed in the gap. A cylinder at the bottom absorbs the recoil. There is 48" of travel in the cylinder so recoil is less than that (I have seen values between 43" and 48" in print). If the gun recoils 48.0000001" there will be damage. The two cylinders above push the gun forward.

My reason for posting is at the forward end. Just to the left of the side there is a vertical plate. That plate is attached to the turret and runs down to below the gun and as the side of the gas seal (ie keeping out poison gas). Running perpendicular to that plate you can see two plates forming a triangle . They are linked to each other, to the turret roof, and to the slide with hinged. They are the top of the gas seal. When the gun moves down, upper plate moves down so that it is slightly forward of vertical. When the gun moves up, the hinges bend to form a smaller angle between the seal plates.

At the sides and bottom the seal is formed with blades. There is a curved plate mounted under the gun for the seal. In higher resolution, you can see the wear on the vertical plate forming the seal.

I have not measured it out but it looks like they could not use a simple curved plate at the top it would have blocked the gun from moving close to horizontal.

[bigjimslade]

This is an excerpt from plan 7201ZF describing cover plates over the gun girders in the turrets.

The reason I share this is to show that the plans indicated differences among the ships. This is one of the earliest plans (10/31/39) and the last modification is 2/7/40 (nearly five months before the Iowa was laid down). I cannot discern from the changes whether the BB-61/62�BB-63/64 distinction was a change or an original.

These are just minor differences in the placement of stiffeners. It is puzzling to me why there would be a difference.

I have a picture I took of this area. There is less than 4 feet between the decks in this area. With the stiffeners above, the crouch space is even less.This is looking aft in Turret 2. The powder hoist to the right gun is to the left of the opening. That is the sloped bulkhead at the left of the plan. The ladder rungs in the background lead to the center gun pit. The opening in the background leads to a void area. There is a bolted plate that leads from there to the right gun pit. I came up an opening behind that leads to the pan plate. It is a maze of twisty passages.

[drdoom1337]

Which kit, when paired with an aftermarket resin or 3d printed enclosed round bridge, would be the best fit for a 1943-1945 NJ. The Blue Ridge NJ represents the Korean War fit, not WWII.

[bigjimslade]

Which kit, when paired with an aftermarket resin or 3d printed enclosed round bridge, would be the best fit for a 1943-1945 NJ. The Blue Ridge NJ represents the Korean War fit, not WWII.

What scale?


Also, found this recent video from World of Warships

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BdhDBvuHW4

going through turrets 1 and 2 of the New Jersey. It's too bad they skip so it's probably hard to follow if you have not explored this area yourself. The video goes into the same space that I shared a picture of previously.

In case you do want to follow along:

The video starts in the lower projectile flat of Turret No. 2 that is open for tours (and is clean). He climbs into the upper flat (that is not open for tours and is covered in grease). He goes upwards followoing the area between the center and right guns and comes out in the center gun pit.

Then he goes back down to the upper projectile flat (with some skipping). You can seem him climbing down to the lower projectile flat. The video skips to the main deck.

He then climbs into Turret 1 and goes into the right gun pit. Then the video skips to him coming into the upper projectile flat of turret 1. He climbs down to the lower flat. Then he climbs down the ladder on the central column into the powder handling flat.

He then proceeds to the powder magazine for Turret 1. This is on the Turret 2 tour. So things are this point are nice and neat. The Turret 1 magazine is on used on the tour because it is larger than the ones for Turret 2.

He goes from the magazine into the powder handling flat of Turret 2. The stairs shown are additions for the tour. He heads for the stairs then the video jumps to the lower projectile ring of Turret 2 (this is a balcony above the powder flat that is only present in this turret).

The he climbs the stairs added for the tour to the lower projectile flat (so he is back where the video started). He exits the turret through the opening cut at the third deck for the tour. He heads aft and the video ends at the third deck in the access trunk that opens next to the XO stateroom, just outside the wardroom on the main deck.

[drdoom1337]

I'd like to go with 1/350. I already have the 1/700 Tamiya Iowa and the 3d NJ round bridge. 1/200 scale seems too long for this class. The only 1/200 kit I own (am working on) is the Mikasa. I will probably purchase the Nelson or Rodney but even those are around 42" long.

[bigjimslade]

I don't think there are a lot of choices. Tamiya Missouri could probably be redone as a NJ with add ons. Model Monkey has a bridge conversion.