The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:26 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2442 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 119, 120, 121, 122, 123  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 744
Here is 1 more version of 5-D you were unaware of.
Image

This is USS Arizona on January 23, 1941 after she left Bremerton.
Image

This is USS Arizona on April 1, 1941 more than a month before she was painted into some version of 5-D at Pearl Harbor.
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10060
Location: EG48
Jeff is right. The orders for 5-D may have come out in January, but the Navy was not ready to issue until much later. Photo evidence from progress photos of the construction of Drydock 2 shows battleship row in #5 Standard Navy Gray on 10 May 1941, only one out of six still in #5 SNG on 4 June. Somewhere I have a photo from the end of May which is about 50-50 but I can't find it right now so I can't give you the date or count. I have wondered if the official paint was ever issued at all, given that the order to stop production came relatively shortly after the ships were first painted in the conversion formula.

I do not have a strong opinion on the matter because of all of the conflicting data and reasons for and against. I am much more comfortable admitting that I do not know - while I would love to have an answer and be able to paint an Arizona on December 7th with confidence I find it much more true to state that we do not know for sure. It is all a matter of opinion at this point.

For what it's worth, David did not process the photos for his book - the publisher did. And he was more or less forced to write an opinion for the book. He would have rather not, given the controversy and uncertainty.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:31 am 
Online

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:15 am
Posts: 2413
Ah, generating a lot more heat than light. As a photographer of long standing, reaching deep into the "Phlegm" era, both color an Black and White... Photographs, even (especially?) color ones are virtually useless in accurately telling what color we are looking at without a calibrated standard present. Especially in the 30's and 40's the film may not even be panchromatic (instead only blue sensitive) and if panchromatic usually used with a colored filter which can very startlingly change the relative tonal portrayal of colors. Even modern digital cameras have a different color response and range than the (usual) eyeball.

Museum restorers are very interested in historical color. I am reminded of a particular F4U Corsair in NZ. It had been repainted a number of times but the Museum was interested in an accurate restoration during it's Pacific Fleet service. At least they had the aircraft and slow worried away the layers of paint till they got down to the layer they deemed correct then had special paint mixed to match.

I mix my own model paints, not for trying to paint a ship on a certain day, but from being 400 miles from the nearest hobby shop. I use the available paint chips for USN colors of the era. I asked my dad about what his ship was painted during WWII, he said... "Gray".

So we do the best we can, sometimes we know, sometimes not.

Cheers: Tom


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
Jeff Sharp wrote:
.....
This is USS Arizona on January 23, 1941 after she left Bremerton.
......
This is USS Arizona on April 1, 1941 more than a month before she was painted into some version of 5-D at Pearl Harbor.
.....


Thank you, no need to challenge, just bring forth the information..... I see that I was wrong.... I'll add the info to my data....

Still, does nothing to change my analysis of her final color as we all have seen the pic of her in drydock Nov. '41 getting her collision damage repaired and her color is obviously 5-D of whatever formulation.... Crew testimony that she wasn't repainted in drydock cause the crew repainted her... (if she was the repair crew would have painted her, those pesky regulations you know) Crew testimony is that in November she was being loaded with this bright blue paint and they were called out enmasse to repaint her.... (hence she wasn't repainted in drydock)

How much of her was repainted is still a question and we have narrowed down the time to the latter half/third week of November..... All the evidence points to she had the opportunity to repaint at that point and only that point.... now all we need to find is documentary evidence acknowledging that it was actually done to put the Dec 7th color controversy to bed...

There are color films out there of the damage recovery work being done at Pearl... those films have fairly good color references to 5-D, 5-S and the red lead they used for preservation....

I wish there was a way to post such here... They were moving a battleship into drydock, you can clearly see blue on her stacks, a for & aft cage masted battleship I think, might be the Tennessee.... Red lead all over her bridge and after turrets, better color references than I've seen anywhere else.... The Arizona wasn't the only ship painted in 5-S...

Jeff, Do you have any proof that she wasn't? as that was the initial challenge over my clearly posted prior conclusions......

EG


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
Tracy White wrote:
Jeff is right. The orders for 5-D may have come out in January, but the Navy was not ready to issue until much later. Photo evidence from progress photos of the construction of Drydock 2 shows battleship row in #5 Standard Navy Gray on 10 May 1941, only one out of six still in #5 SNG on 4 June. Somewhere I have a photo from the end of May which is about 50-50 but I can't find it right now so I can't give you the date or count. I have wondered if the official paint was ever issued at all, given that the order to stop production came relatively shortly after the ships were first painted in the conversion formula.

I do not have a strong opinion on the matter because of all of the conflicting data and reasons for and against. I am much more comfortable admitting that I do not know - while I would love to have an answer and be able to paint an Arizona on December 7th with confidence I find it much more true to state that we do not know for sure. It is all a matter of opinion at this point.

For what it's worth, David did not process the photos for his book - the publisher did. And he was more or less forced to write an opinion for the book. He would have rather not, given the controversy and uncertainty.


I acknowledge when I'm wrong and I was wrong, but I got more information that is correct even though I wasn't looking for any....

As I said before I have the info I need to make my judgment as to what color she was, on that specific day, and I haven't seem anything to rate changing that assessment yet, Jeff's posting from the Pensy's deck log just went to confirm what I already knew about her movements post drydocking, She spent three days at sea testing her repair, a week or ten days in Pearl and five days out at gunnery practice which she returned from December 5th The vestal tied up along side that evening.... Early morning December 6th the Vestal was moved out of the way and she was turned around, (so the bow pointed out the channel, battleships were too big to turn themselves around) the Vestal being re-moored next to her... (the Vestal wasn't turned around) No further movements after that...

As far as the images in David's book, I'm surprised that David would write something as an author for publishing that he really didn't believe...... I've gotta find that forum discussion on those altered pictures.... It says a lot about them being altered and the opinions of those commenting on their opinions of accuracy..... To me, reading it, I was struck by all the opinions being posted of how an altered picture was being considered accurate by what I thought were reasonable people, until I realized they were arguing and discussing a specific belief and the altered pictures were justifying their already decided upon conclusions... It was very revealing on the depth of the color issue.... A lot of people have staked a lot of heavy emotions into being right on this paint color issue....

Thank you Tracy, I'm still looking for more info, if I find it I'll post it and let the world know but as far as my future AZ model, everyone knows where I stand...

EG

Ps: I ran across another online conversation the other day, people are still claiming despite the evidence, that the AZ's turret tops were not painted red, nor any of the other battleships their colors. I find it hard to believe that there are still people arguing that with the evidence we have in hand proving the turret top colors were real beyond any shadow of doubt...
People come to a conclusion and do not want to give up their erroneous beliefs despite any evidence... That still amazes me to this day...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
Fliger747 wrote:
Ah, generating a lot more heat than light. As a photographer of long standing, reaching deep into the "Phlegm" era, both color an Black and White... Photographs, even (especially?) color ones are virtually useless in accurately telling what color we are looking at without a calibrated standard present. Especially in the 30's and 40's the film may not even be panchromatic (instead only blue sensitive) and if panchromatic usually used with a colored filter which can very startlingly change the relative tonal portrayal of colors. Even modern digital cameras have a different color response and range than the (usual) eyeball.

Museum restorers are very interested in historical color. I am reminded of a particular F4U Corsair in NZ. It had been repainted a number of times but the Museum was interested in an accurate restoration during it's Pacific Fleet service. At least they had the aircraft and slow worried away the layers of paint till they got down to the layer they deemed correct then had special paint mixed to match.

I mix my own model paints, not for trying to paint a ship on a certain day, but from being 400 miles from the nearest hobby shop. I use the available paint chips for USN colors of the era. I asked my dad about what his ship was painted during WWII, he said... "Gray".

So we do the best we can, sometimes we know, sometimes not.

Cheers: Tom


Hi Tom, that's what my photography nut friends, (a few of them are professional photo re-touchers) tell me as well. you can tweak things a bit trying to get life into an otherwise dull lifeless photo, but you cannot take it to extremes. If you go to the extent of completely changing a color you have changed the picture away from what it actually was... Your then in the realm of photo interpretation based upon opinion rather than correction... Without a calibrated matrix of what it was the day it was taken there is no way to tell how close it is to real. in those cases they say it is best to leave it alone and let it speak for itself... That's is what they told me about the Life Magazine pics compared to the "Corrected" pics in Davids book....

The life pics are very close to what it actually was, understanding that they are color shifted over time. In their opinions, when they were freshly taken the colors were probably even more vivid than they are in the untouched pics... And they also pointed out we are discussing a digital copy of them, it's not even a real picture, it's an image of a picture... They would love to see the actual negatives the life photographer got, the whole sequence even, and we all laughed at that...

All we can do is the best we can with the evidence we have... Very True...

EG


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
Ok I dug through the archive and found this video I guess I downloaded 4-5 years ago... Gonna post some pics from it.... It's actually the clearest color video of Pearl Harbor around Mid '42.... It's a compilation video, it starts with scenes of the navy tugs pulling the Wee Vee to drydock.... you get to see 5-S on the Wee Vee (stacks and starboard hull and her scorched blackened port side from where the oil fires were raging and she was taking a lot of heat) you get to see a tug in several shots, one in 5-S, and later on one in 5-D..... we also get a shot of the bow of the Arizona not much you can say there but they have a VERY clear shot of the Wee Vee's aft crane in 5-S....

Now normally we could cite the age of the film and it's probable color shifting.... but understand the color pics of that 5-S crane are very important...

It then move on to shots of downtown Honolulu, people walking past a storefront with excellent reflections in the windows where you can see the color reflections of the clothes people are wearing... Lots of skin tones of all nationalities and ethnic groups, pretty good images, watch for the lady wearing a dark blue dress carrying a bright red purse, then tell me about color shift...

It then moves on to the dry docking of the Nevada, we get to see more tugs in all three colors, 5-D, 5-S & the last one in a nice fresh coat of 5-N and you can easily see the red navigation lightbox on the port side bridge... but the best part of this film is it captures a battleship in 5-D which was the color scheme of the Nevada the day of the raid.... it shows the name plate on the stern in black, the hull sides in black the port side that is very weathered faded black/grey and going back to the stern a virtually undamaged aircraft crane in the same position as the Wee Vee, in stunning greyish black 5-D. A direct comparison of 5-D to 5-S with a full shot of a tug in a fresh coat of very dark 5-N........

Lots of pics so I may break it up into several uploads....

Here are the shots of the Wee Vee....

Attachment:
File comment: Re-floated under tow
vlcsnap-02049.jpg
vlcsnap-02049.jpg [ 114.28 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Port side stern, see the nice blue stacks?
vlcsnap-02047.jpg
vlcsnap-02047.jpg [ 180.2 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Starboard side stern again the nice blue stacks looks like the boat crane has some blue also
vlcsnap-02048.jpg
vlcsnap-02048.jpg [ 158.11 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Starboard hull, might that be a hint of blue?
vlcsnap-02053.jpg
vlcsnap-02053.jpg [ 134.67 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: OH YESS!!! That's BLUE hull if I ever saw one, 5-S I'll bet....
vlcsnap-02057.jpg
vlcsnap-02057.jpg [ 147.07 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


I guess what we are seeing here is that the Wee Vee was painted blue, obviously in Measure 11, Sea Blue scheme...

As a comparison lets see a tugboat in Sea Blue....

Attachment:
File comment: Yep that looks like Sea Blue to me....
vlcsnap-02058.jpg
vlcsnap-02058.jpg [ 141.61 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Pulling into dry dock now, take a look at the superstructure below the bridges in red lead and above the bare metal turrets, is that blue poking about in the recesses there?
vlcsnap-02059.jpg
vlcsnap-02059.jpg [ 178.47 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


I think it is pretty safe to say the Wee Vee was blue before the attack... and it looks like her painting was completed...

Now lets address the idea of color shift... Color shift will make a set range of colors appear different than the really are in comparison to each other, Blues appear darker than they really were and reds next to them will take on a bluish tint like become slightly purplish, yellow greens will take on a deeper green color and whites will take on a bluish haze....

Lets see how this film hold up....

Attachment:
File comment: Oh my look at that red sweater against the dark blue dress, no hints of purple there...
vlcsnap-02066.jpg
vlcsnap-02066.jpg [ 184.43 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Look at that red purse, blue dress multi color belt, the pale yellow shirt, the bluish grey striped dress, the skin tones in both shadow and light.... No color shift there...
vlcsnap-02067.jpg
vlcsnap-02067.jpg [ 193.71 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


One more then we will get on with the navy color comparisons....

Attachment:
File comment: One has to take a look at the tan building side the red coke sign and the pink dress, Perfect color division no bleed over and no color shift....
vlcsnap-02070.jpg
vlcsnap-02070.jpg [ 205.26 KiB | Viewed 443 times ]


Next post we go on to the Nevada, which we know was in Measure 1 5-D scheme... (Blacker than black)

EG


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
We continue here with the color comparison between 5-D, 5-S & 5-N, all under the same light conditions at a period in time where they would all be seen painted on ships of the Pacific fleet....

USS Nevada, Ms. 1, 5-D, Blacker than Black....

Attachment:
File comment: Her stern nameplate, not burned, not submerged, same as the color chips I've seen of the Oklahoma and Enterprise....
vlcsnap-02071.jpg
vlcsnap-02071.jpg [ 156.85 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Oh yes, faded 5-D looks kinda chalky doesn't it? look at the solid black boot topping and the worn anti-fouling red.....
vlcsnap-02073.jpg
vlcsnap-02073.jpg [ 213.57 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Oh yes, weathered 5-D, compare to the 5-H haze grey and the places where the paint was burned off the hull.... No doubt exactly how 5-D is described...
vlcsnap-02074.jpg
vlcsnap-02074.jpg [ 218.6 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


At this point, we have three different tugs each painted in the three different dark scheme colors 5-D, 5-S & 5-N and I'm about to show them to you all...

We start with 5-D... Dark Grey

Attachment:
File comment: Yep 5-D for sure....
vlcsnap-02075.jpg
vlcsnap-02075.jpg [ 149.53 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


Now we go to 5-S..... Sea Blue

Attachment:
File comment: Looks like Sea Blue to me....
vlcsnap-02058.jpg
vlcsnap-02058.jpg [ 141.61 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


And finally 5-N... Navy Blue....

Attachment:
File comment: Yep nice dark blue.....
vlcsnap-02052.jpg
vlcsnap-02052.jpg [ 121.16 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


And lastly, the Crane of the Nevada, compared to the crane on the Wee Vee, a direct comparison of 5-D dark Grey and 5-S Sea Blue.....

Attachment:
File comment: The Nevada's crane in 5-D Dark Grey....
vlcsnap-02072.jpg
vlcsnap-02072.jpg [ 177.33 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Wee Vee's crane, 5-S Sea Blue....
vlcsnap-02060.jpg
vlcsnap-02060.jpg [ 187.58 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]


We know this is Wee Vee cause she is in the outside berth ahead of the Arizona in the background....

And it is the same light conditions, same camera, same time of the year....

WE now know the difference between 5-D, Dark Grey, 5-S Sea Blue and 5-N Navy Grey....

Unfortunately that is the only shot of Arizona in this video so it cannot tell us an answer to the burning question of was she finished or not.... but since it is now apparent that Wee Vee was in Sea Blue and I've seen images of the Tennessee in the same color that it is absolutely possible to paint a battleship completely in a week two of the battle line were and I'm now even more convinced that the Arizona was as well....

That's my evidence on the paint controversy....

If anyone wants to see the full complete 18 minute film I'm posting the link to it below.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5cqIT6_Cbs

Enjoy...

EG


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 744
EG, I could talk all day and all night with you on these films and the colors of all the other battleships at Pearl but I feel we need to keep this forum specifically for USS Arizona and not muddy up this forum with discussions of other ships.
There needs to be a separate forum created for this discussion as it will get very lengthy and debated.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:07 am 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3516
Location: USA
The color of ships at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941 remains a very contentious issue hotly and bitterly argued by many for several years. Since the arguments, accusations and counter-accusations are certain to devolve into personal attacks and overwhelm this thread on Arizona, I'm going to exercise moderator's privilege and separate the coloration posts from this thread into their own thread later today.

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalog of over 2500 products for scale modelers - https://www.model-monkey.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
ModelMonkey wrote:
The colors of ships at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941 remains a very contentious issue hotly and bitterly argued by many for several years. Since the arguments, accusations and counter-accusations are certain to devolve into personal attacks and overwhelm this thread on Arizona, I'm going to exercise moderator's privilege and separate the coloration posts from this thread into their own thread later today.


I understand on a topic organization standpoint, but I can also admit when I have been baited and I fell into the trap...

My apologies it won't happen again.... I'm new here so I really do not know the personalities, but I'm learning...

I'll go back to posting plans and researching, hey at least I learned something,

EG


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: Mocksville, NC
ModelMonkey wrote:
The colors of ships at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941 remains a very contentious issue hotly and bitterly argued by many for several years. Since the arguments, accusations and counter-accusations are certain to devolve into personal attacks and overwhelm this thread on Arizona, I'm going to exercise moderator's privilege and separate the coloration posts from this thread into their own thread later today.


BOY!!!!! Now you guys have done it!!!! You've riled up The Monkey Man (no ref. to Bob Dylan's song, by the way :big_grin: ) Just remember - Separation is one step away from Divorce - and when The Admiral is on THAT warpath, anything and everything is on the target list.

Whew, I'm glad The Monkey Man and I are friends........ :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:22 am 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3516
Location: USA
No apologies are necessary. The color of ships at Pearl Harbor is a discussion absolutely worth having. But there is some unpleasant history associated with that topic some may not be aware of. For many reasons, that specific discussion tends to go very badly on this site and others.

What we can attempt to create here on MWS is a dedicated thread where evidence can be presented, interpretations of the evidence can be thoughtfully analyzed and respectfully discussed, and viewpoints be shared in a meaningful way, in it own place, free from personal attacks, put-downs, accusations and counter-accusations. Keep in mind, MWS needs to be a safe place for modelers.

That means we're going to have some rules for that thread. It may be best to start from scratch, with the opening post laying out some basic rules.

From sponsors' perspective, we don't want discussions-gone-bad running off the clientele. The color discussion has nearly always ended up as a hornets' nest of personal attacks. You all may remember the intimidating Faroe dealer Johnny Tyler played by Billy Bob Thornton in the movie "Tombstone". Tyler's behavior drove away the saloon's clientele. In a very memorable scene, Wyatt Earp, played by Kurt Russell, confronts Johnny Tyler saying, "You gonna do something or stand there and bleed?" After Earp ejects the bullying dealer, business at the saloon boomed. A booming business is what sponsors want.

Any "Johnny Tyler posts" on that thread will be deleted. If we're not able to maintain a safe thread for the color discussion, the entire thread can be deleted, too. Let's hope that won't be necessary.


Attachments:
tombstone-billy-bob-thornton.jpg
tombstone-billy-bob-thornton.jpg [ 57.81 KiB | Viewed 414 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalog of over 2500 products for scale modelers - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:31 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3516
Location: USA
New "Color of Battleships at Pearl Harbor" thread created. Let's keep it civil, meaningful and helpful.

Link: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=305334

[edit: moved to Camouflage and Coatings section, link updated]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalog of over 2500 products for scale modelers - https://www.model-monkey.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
So, what is available in 1/350th aftermarket for the banner AZ, also what's worth it and what's not? Still considering my options on how much I want to put into it...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 2698
https://www.model-monkey.com/battleships-350


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
DavidP wrote:
https://www.model-monkey.com/battleships-350


Yeah I've seen that, anything else out there that would be useful?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:00 pm
Posts: 186
Eduard do a set for the HobbyBoss 1/350 U.S.S. Arizona which I gather is the same tooling as Banner? Though I am not 100% sure.

https://www.eduard.com/Eduard/Photo-etched-parts/Photo-etched-set/Ships/1-350/USS-Arizona-1-350.html
https://www.eduard.com/eduard/photo-etched-parts/photo-etched-set/ships/1-350/uss-arizona-1941-railings-1-350.html


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:00 pm
Posts: 186
As regards U.S.S. Arizona's colour scheme at the time of the Pearl Harbour attack:

If someone had a time machine and an HD Colour Camera Drone.. They could go back to December 7th 1941 and film Battleship Row from both sides, from above and from all around ten minutes before the first waves of Japanese aircraft arrived. Then come back here and post up the footage. But even if someone did that I bet there would probably still be arguments over the exact colours seen.

There seem to be various possibilities for U.S.S. Arizona, Dark Grey, Sea Blue, a semi-finished changeover between them etc. I have not researched it in any detail myself.

Therefore would it be possible perhaps to sticky and lock a single message relating to U.S.S. Arizona's colours on December 7th 1941? Lay out each of the possibilities for colour schemes in terms of references to supporting documentation, dates, clearly stating any assumptions made etc.? Do it dispassionately, in say a bullet point type format under a heading for each colour scheme?

Basically present all the currently known possibilities in one place in a clear, concise way and let the individual modeller reading it decide for themselves which to opt for?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 83
That discussion was moved to another section of the forum....

Link: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=305334&p=914435#p914435

But I don't know if there are many that really wish to discuss it anymore, I guess the discussion got real heated at one point.... But I"m searching my archives of pictures trying to come up with color shots showing them as I believe that is the only way we are really going to know... Of course we will have the expert photo analyzers come into the discussion and explain why all the color photos are really showing black/grey instead of the blue the pictures shows...

Oh well, build it the way your convinced it should be.... Is the advice generally given out here...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2442 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 119, 120, 121, 122, 123  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group