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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:31 am 
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Today, 80 years ago, HMS Kent was torpedoed by an Italian SM.79 bomber.

Here my interpretation of her fit before she was torpedoed:

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HMS Kent (1/700)

I used the Aoshima kit, barrels by NNT and Master, PE parts by Tom's Modelworks, and AA guns by FineMolds and 3DModel Parts.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Today 80 years ago, on the 27th of November 1940, HMS Berwick fought in the Battle of Cape Teulada/Spartivento.

I built her using the Cornwall kit by Aoshima. The main differences are the forward 4" twins, which were further aft in case of Berwick, and that Berwick had not a shortened main mast. Unfortunately, many details of her November 1940 fit are unclear. There are drawings (e.g. County Class Cruisers, Shipcraft 19, British and Commonwealth Warship Camouflage of WWII, Volume 3 and Warship Perspectives Camouflage Volume 1), but they do not agree in many details. I have not found suitable photos to confirm them and decided to use Raven's drawings plus some photos or earlier and later fits.

More about the model:
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php/modelle/112-lars/6067-britischer-schwerer-kreuzer-hms-berwick-1-700-aoshima-von-lars-scharff



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with ships of two other County classes, the armoured cruiser HMS Monmouth (1901) and the missile destroyer HMS Glamorgan (1966).

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:40 am 
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Wonderful dioramas and ships Maxim :)

Given the new information that has come to light regarding the painting of Hood's underwater area, do we have any information on which of the Counties received paint treatment and antifouling from manufacturers such as Peacock and Buchans, and which colours were used?

The NMM builders model of Cumberland appears to be in black and white? Or maybe it's grey below the bootstrip?

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 66003.html


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:49 am 
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Location: England
Jack G wrote:
Wonderful dioramas and ships Maxim :)

The NMM builders model of Cumberland appears to be in black and white? Or maybe it's grey below the bootstrip?

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 66003.html


If you scroll down the NMM/RMG page to the "Description" it tells you the colour below the boot-topping


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:32 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
G’day
I am planning to build HMAS Canberra using Trumpeter’s 1/350 HMS Kent kit and Kraken Hobbies conversion set. I have just received MicroMasters 8” and 4” turrets/barrels as well as 20mm Oerlikins.

I am hoping there are some County class and/or RAN experts who can help with some advice or point me to online sources for answers to my questions.

1. HMAS Canberra never had the armour belt that is molded in the hull of Trumpeter’s Kent.
I plan to put Canberra into a seascape so the belt may not be an issue if I can hide it in the sea.
Should I decide to remove the belt, how would I go about it? Are there any plans/sketches/photos of Canberra’s hull showing its shape?

2. I must admit I find the USN paint scheme a tad dull and am considering painting Canberra as she appeared in May 1942. Would 507A, 507C and white be correct for the vertical surfaces?
What about the horizontal surfaces? What colours would have been used? Would the vertical camouflage pattern be carried across the main deck?

3. Basically, I would like to know what boats Canberra was carrying at the time of her loss and whether they would be positioned as shown in Trumpeter’s Kent?
Also are there more detailed versions of the boats available e.g. 3D printed?

4. Trumpeter’s Kent has numerous small parts, mainly around the bow and stern, which I am calling ‘deck equipment’ (for wont of a better description) e.g. part no’s A24, A25, A26, B32, C1, C22, C26 etc.
I am curious to know what these pieces of ‘deck equipment’ were and their purpose. Were they air ventilators/intakes , anchor points?
Whilst not exactly blobs of plastic the parts do not have very much detail on them. Are there 3D printed or similar parts with more detail that could be substituted?

5. The rigging of a ship has always intrigued me. Drawings, photos etc will show the rigging between the masts, to a jackstaff and even appearing to attach to the deck or superstructure. But I have never found an example showing exactly where rigging attaches to a deck or superstructure and how it is attached. Is the piece of rigging held by a shackle on the deck?
How have other modellers shown the deck attachment of rigging on their ships?

6. What variant of the Walrus was Canberra carrying at the time of her loss? Are there any after market or 3D print options available? And, in what colours would the Walrus have been painted?

Any advice or information would be much appreciated.
Rod


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:33 am 
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Hi rotley,

with the availability of the Kent kit and 3D conversion parts I believe you´re not the only one having these same questions, so I provide some quick answers based on my research for my 1/700 Canberra build 3 years ago. Perhaps some of the RAN experts would enlarge then.

1. Canberra never received the pre-war refit her sisters did so she had no add-on armour belt. I am afraid there is no way to realistically conceal the surplus armour belt by the seascape, it is too high above the sea level. You can easily see it on most wartime photos of Kent-class members (excl. Canberra), it is a stripe just on the top of the torpedo bulge. You´d either have to leave it as it is and have the model inaccurate or you´d have to take the harder way of removing it (e.g. by dremelling or shaving off) and then putty and sanding. It should be doable with some effort.

2. While the three-tone camo scheme is definitely sexy, take into account Canberra never wore it in combat. According to research by Michael Brown (medway) the paints used were MS2 (dark grey similar to 507B & A) and MS3 (lighter grey about 31% reflectance). Her horizontal surfaces were painted with dark gray, exact shade is unknown. Her timber decks were definitely overpainted with dark gray, no natural wood.

3. Check photos, Canberra´s boats were often covered with canvas while at sea. Micro Master has a wide collection of RN boats available, I am sure he will be able to help you here.

4. Most of these parts (I have not cross-checked for exact items here) were various vents. Again, check photos, there are lots of Canberra photos on the net. From what I can see in the Kent assembly guide they don´t look too bad, but they were easy shapes if you wanted to design them and have them 3D printed.

6. I don´t think you can tell the difference between Walrus I and II in 1/350. Canberra´s Walrus was painted in standard RN 3-tone camo in 1942 incl. standard roundels (red center) until her loss.

Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:30 am 
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Re 2:

Given what can be seen in photos of Canberra in this scheme there is to my eye not enough contrast between the darker two tones for them to have been 507A and the 507C (plus white). Michael's recent research in the Australian archives indicates that Prof Dakin, the RAN’s Technical Director of Camouflage, designed this scheme on Canberra. There is a note from Dakin giving suggested colours for Canberra which were “No.2” for the dark areas and “No.3” for the light areas. These numbers corresponded to the colours on a standard panel supplied by Garden Island. Dakin had been experimenting with specially mixed colours for the RAN since mid 1941 and one can speculate that No.2 and No.3 were similar to/a development of colours that he used on HMAS Kybra and HMAS Perth.

No.2 & No. 3 cannot have been MS colours as they were unknown to Dakin at the time of his memo re Canberra (4 March 1942).

Given his comments/advice to the RAN on camouflage since 1941 I think it is inconceivable that Dakin would not also have specified painting the decks a dark colour.


Last edited by dick on Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:28 am 
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Location: England
The scheme in question:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41311545@N05/11530515666


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:38 am 
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Time goes by and new findings surface, my information is 3 years old as I mentioned above. Definitely it is the best to ask Michael for the latest opinions.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:19 am 
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Hi Rotley,

Re: 1. removing the belt, I removed the belt from my 1/350 Cornwall in order to backdate her, then drilled out all the portholes.

To do so, I taped around the belt, shaved some off with a blade attached to a shaped jig I made, that didn't work too well so I made a guide from a dremel part and then the dremel slid and reduced the bulge; then I sanded the remainder. The difficult part is matching the curve from the bulge to the slope of the hull side, but it is possible.


Attachments:
Cornwall belt remove.jpg
Cornwall belt remove.jpg [ 113.4 KiB | Viewed 679 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:00 am 
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Jack G wrote:
Hi Rotley,

Re: 1. removing the belt, I removed the belt from my 1/350 Cornwall in order to backdate her, then drilled out all the portholes.

To do so, I taped around the belt, shaved some off with a blade attached to a shaped jig I made, that didn't work too well so I made a guide from a dremel part and then the dremel slid and reduced the bulge; then I sanded the remainder. The difficult part is matching the curve from the bulge to the slope of the hull side, but it is possible.

Looks you have done that very well, Jack G!

Re "the difficult part etc.": it may sound daunting, but it might be an idea to first separate the hull at the top level of the bulge (even 0.5mm above that), and then remove the belt from the upper part. When done, re-join the upper and lower hull parts (adding a spacer for the width of the saw blade), this will help creating a clear kink between the bulge and sloping part of the hull. Of course a minor amount of putty will be required then for cleaning up the cut.

Re "then drilled out all the portholes": did you check the locations for this with photographs, or did you simply believe the Trumpeter locations (or those from Profile Morskie) were allright? When I did my Suffolk conversion I found the discrepancies were huge, so I ended up redoing all the scuttle locations, both the lower and the upper ones.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:20 am 
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Hi Maarten - I skimped on the portholes! Exhaustion set in after the hull and "she'll be right," took over. I added a few smaller ones aft of where the torpedos will go. The model now has superstructure basics done and a custom wood deck cut out for it.

I'm going to have to repaint the lower hull as I suspect it will be grey in China Station days, so maybe look into portholes then. Any Cornwall plans from early 1930's out there?

The hull separation sounds a little daunting: I used surfboard shaping skillset to see/feel the curves and the interaction with the sheer of the hull. I guess my mind/hands are most at home doing it this way.

In other news, I found a great pic of a Hawkins class cruiser in a dry dock - that beautiful hull shape is so similar to Counties and Hood. The ships by d'Eyncourt were very graceful.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:50 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
G'day

Thank you Vladi, dick, Jack G and Maarten for responding to some of my queries.

1. I think, after reading all the advice, removing the armour belt is well beyond my inept skills in model building.

I would rather leave the hull 'historically inaccurate' than the real risk of stuffing it up and ruining the whole experience of building the Canberra.

It is not as if anyone with expert knowledge on County class Heavy Cruisers or HMAS Canberra in particular will ever see the finished model.

2. I am still having second thoughts on the paint scheme to use. I may take the ease route and do the vertical surfaces in USN 'Chicago Blue'.

I'll keep searching for information on my other queries.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:07 pm 
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Vladi wrote:

3. Check photos, Canberra´s boats were often covered with canvas while at sea. Micro Master has a wide collection of RN boats available, I am sure he will be able to help you here.

Hope this helps.


G'day Vladi

I was hoping to find a source that identifies the type of ship boats carried by Canberra or the County class in general. I have found plenty of information about ship dimensions, armour, propulsion systems, armament etc but nothing about the ship's boats.

I don't have the expertise to look at an image of Canberra and decide whether the boat in the image is a 25' motor cutter or 25' fast motor boat; a 27' whaler or 32' life cutter etc.

MicroMasters produces a wide range of RN ship boats in 1/350 but Simon has said there is no specific set for County cruisers nor could he advise what they were.

Once I know what boats Canberra carried I can check with the likes of MicroMasters for ones that are better quality/detailed.

Rod


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:12 pm 
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Rotley,

I did not include these with the instructions as this is the 1929 layout, however after looking at most pictures it seems that for Canberra this stayed pretty close for her career.

Attachment:
Canberra Boats.JPG
Canberra Boats.JPG [ 127.92 KiB | Viewed 611 times ]


Hope this helps.

Matt

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:53 am 
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Jack G, A mighty fine job you have done removing that belt, well done.

Rotley, I would suggest you check late images of Canberra to ascertain the boat positions, they changed from her early boat layout and she shipped less boats.
In 39 her boat compliment somewhat mirrored the OH GA, the strbd Admiral`s barge was landed sometime late 39/early 40, from that time she shipped no boats of that design. The 35`early design motor boat was moved forward to the midship Admiral barge location, no boat was fitted in the original position from that time onward, she also shipped one of these boats on the port side location.


Attachments:
STRBD BOAT LAYOUT, 39.jpg
STRBD BOAT LAYOUT, 39.jpg [ 173.66 KiB | Viewed 580 times ]
EARLY 41.jpg
EARLY 41.jpg [ 183.66 KiB | Viewed 580 times ]
MAY 42.jpg
MAY 42.jpg [ 213.61 KiB | Viewed 580 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:35 pm 
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rotley wrote:
I think, after reading all the advice, removing the armour belt is well beyond my inept skills in model building.

On the other hand, if you give it a go and pull it off, you've now expanded your skills, giving you more confidence for the next thing you want to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:20 pm 
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rotley, scribe a line from the top of the torpedo bulge across the armor belt with a straight edge then use a chisel blade to remove that belt from either side of that scribed line.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Kraken Hobbies wrote:
Rotley,

Attachment:
Canberra Boats.JPG


Hope this helps.

Matt


G'day Matt

Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for. I remember seeing this drawing years ago but could not find it online.

And thanks Brett Morrow for the additional information.

MicroMaster will be receiving another order from me.


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