1/350 HMAS Melbourne R21 (1982)

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Bonobo, the side openings of your quarter deck, are the bottoms at the same level? do you have a compass for scribing the tops of the side openings before trimming or adding plastic so all the same size height openings?

The two large openings at the corners have a greater height than the side openings. Here the 25 de Mayo/Venerable.

3862.jpeg (15.34 KiB) Viewed 1472 times

3863.jpeg (15.1 KiB) Viewed 1472 times

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Maarten, was not asking about those 2 openings tho the bottom of all the quarter deck openings should be at the same level. Bonobo's side openings on the model don't appear to be same height size to each other which is were the compass or a compass like divider comes in. learned that 1 when doing the enclosed openings on the Nevada class in this link. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=165105

Now I see your point. Yes, Bonobo's work is somewhat crude indeed, I assumed he would be tidying up the ship when he's further progressing, and then your measuring technique (with a set of compasses) would come in handy indeed. (Using the word 'divider' explained to me what you were heading at!)

Compass:

(pair of) compasses:

[Pieter]

This may also be a camera thing. The quarter deck openings in my IHP Glory build look like they are not to the same height in pictures but in reality they are dead straight as I could fit my very much horizontal upper deck piece to them.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Compass - compasses --- English is a funny language!
Single vs. plural:
Jean (Norma)


Jeans

[Bonobo_Atho]

Well the story goes a bit like this....this is my very first scratch build and I am learning a lot, and I mean a lot.

Deck 3 isn't flat and even though to start with I scribed the top and bottoms of the openings with something akin to a compass I discovered that some of the non-flat locations coincided with the openings. Deck 3 isn't flat because the styrene sheets I used where too thin (1mm) and too soft (Damn Evergreen!). However.......the quarter deck is an especially big problem because it curves up slightly towards the stern. It wasn't meant too but it did. I attempted to fix it but not nearly well enough. I definitely have to go back over the quarter deck openings and level them with respect to each other and somehow find a way to hide that pesky little slope. Maybe all the airplanes on the flight deck will draw the eye away and no one will every notice except for me and you lot with your keen eyes

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Well the story goes a bit like this....this is my very first scratch build and I am learning a lot, and I mean a lot.

Deck 3 isn't flat and even though to start with I scribed the top and bottoms of the openings with something akin to a compass I discovered that some of the non-flat locations coincided with the openings. Deck 3 isn't flat because the styrene sheets I used where too thin (1mm) and too soft (Damn Evergreen!). However.......the quarter deck is an especially big problem because it curves up slightly towards the stern. It wasn't meant too but it did. I attempted to fix it but not nearly well enough. I definitely have to go back over the quarter deck openings and level them with respect to each other and somehow find a way to hide that pesky little slope. Maybe all the airplanes on the flight deck will draw the eye away and no one will every notice except for me and you lot with your keen eyes

Well, sir, hat in hand! You ARE learning a lot! And so do all of us if and when we pay attention to what you are doing.

Indeed, well noticed, on the longitudinal section drawing (I suppose you have these?) of the Colossus/Majestic class the decks ar all perfectly straight, no sheer whatsoever.

[Bonobo_Atho]

I have been building the ship from the image below, which I purchased along with the drawings for HMAS Sydney from the Naval Historical Society of Australia https://www.navyhistory.org.au. The HMAS Sydney drawings included a plan of deck 3 showing the layout of the galleries, hanger, and quarter deck. I don't have any longitudinal sections in elevation.

I don't have a compass but I do have a pair of metal dividers. What I think would've be ideal though is a mag base with a pencil or scribe attached to it.

I agree the problem lies with the balsa under the deck. I installed it vertically between the frames when maybe I should've laid it flat parallel to the deck (i.e glued the deck sheet to a large flat piece of balsa. And instead of making frames I should have used negative patterns of the frame???

As for the shear in the quarter deck I may just file what I can so that the bottom of the openings are all level and then repair the top of the openings to match.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Well,

It's not the Melbourne, but the Karel Doorman instead, but here you can find a rather complete set of drawings (44 of them) of such a carrier:
https://www.nationaalarchief.nl/onderzo ... ~3190-3233

Let me know when you need any help for the explanation.

You might find this one useful too: https://prints.rmg.co.uk/products/inboa ... 1956-m0595 and4
https://prints.rmg.co.uk/products/no-2- ... 1956-m0598
If you want a higher resolution, it's going to cost you some money though...

And here you find a set of drawings of HMS Colossus before she became Arromanches:
http://3dhistory.de/wordpress/warship-d ... -colossus/

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Bonobo, how flat/level is the flight deck except for the extreme end as that is what the compass/divider will slide across while scribing the hull openings? which way does the balsa wood grain under the quarter deck go, starboard to port or along the length of the model?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=214450&start=43
The answer can be found some pages back: I believe left-right (or port-stbd), not lengthwise.

Bonobo used the balsa as a filler material, after all the frames were set. Personally: I rather use the balsa structurally, lengthwise, using its fiber strength as a construction material, as a strong core for the hull. I don't use the fysical frame formers as Bonobo did, but I use (thick) paper counterforms, to cut the balsa core into shape. So the grain stays intact. I also ususally don't use sheet plastic to skin the hull, but Evergreen strips, as these can be plied over curves much better. The more pronounced the curves, the narrower the strips I use.

But this talk is now not relevant, as the hull is there already, the point is how to correct the shape of the deck. I think using a (coarse) file is the best way to do that, refining with sandpaper on a sanding block, or sanding sticks, to finish it off.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

I am using gel type superglue. Scroll down to my Straat Clarence build to see how it works. Maarten Sch�nfeld who taught me this technique used very thin plastic glue which seems to work also. Try on a smaller hull first. Maybe Melbourne needs a harbor tug in attendance.

I really like the idea of using balsa to fill in the hull and provide something substantial to form the hull skin over which will still allow me to still use 0.5mm for the skin (Cheers Pieter). What do you recommend for gluing the balsa to the styrene? I

Finding this old post from my friend Pieter!

I see he got me wrong on this: I don't use superglue to cement the plastic strips to the balsa (but it could work alright). In fact I use a solvent type glue as Pieter says, I prefer Humbrol Liquid Poly (sic!) for that, I paste it onto the strips twice and then apply them quickly onto the balsa. The solvent makes the plastic gooey and by pressing it this dissolved plastic then enters the pores of the balsa and acts as a strong cement. Works perfectly! The advantage of this method is you have a longer correction time to get the strips in place, and as a bonus they also glue to one another without seams.

Maarten

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

I use Testors tube glue to join plastic to balsa wood with no issues & those models are about 40yrs old.

Must also work well!

[Bonobo_Atho]

Thank you everyone for the fantastic resources. Wishing I had those way back when I started
The Karel Doorman material is fantastic and makes me wish we had something similar here in Australia. I expect the Navy is sitting on a mass of Melbourne drawings, that is unless they disposed of them before they were digitised, that would be extremely handy. Anyway, you can only work with what you've got and so and very big thanks to you all for greatly expanding my resources.

[Bonobo_Atho]

Last few days progress has been focused on filling and sanding the hull. Mostly done except for some detail around the bow, the stern openings on the quarter deck, and the prop shaft fairings.
I'm still considering what to do with the level of the openings on the quarter deck. Interestingly I am using Tamiya putty as the filler and haven't been through a whole tube yet. Hopefully next weekend I can put a primer coat on the hull and see where more fairing is required.

To answer a question in previous posts I have used several brands of polystyrene cement and found they all glue styrene to balsa very well. I have used it almost exclusively on this project except where I wanted a quick joint. Historically I have used the Revell cement in the neat little applicator but in the last few years have started using Mr Cement and Tamiya. Each one has an application they are best suited for.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

You've almost reached the point where I was some years ago -- but using a completely different method!
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=5057&start=22

Seems your're ironing out the hurdles now.

[Bonobo_Atho]

I am hurdling slowly but surely

[Bonobo_Atho]

Gallery sponsons taking shape.

[Fliger747]

Persistence a most important attribute. I an fortunate to have one of the magnetic bases. My table isn�t metal but wood. The most important part being smooth and level. Scribing waterlines is it�s main use, though I did use it with a dial gauge to measure disc runout on my BMW. Keep plugging away, you will find many techniques that don�t work and some that do. I have in the past chopped off major sections and started over. As to printing your planes and props, orientation and placement of supports critical. With my new printer, no supports needed for the props, which now leaves both sides smooth.

Stay at it, not being afraid to try new things is an important ability

[Bonobo_Atho]

Thank you for the advise and words of encouragement

[NavyShooter]

A fascinating process - I applaud your efforts and perseverance to this build.

I'll offer a couple of points - WRT the props - here's a link to a page about HMCS Bonaventure - she also had a 3 and 4 bladed set of props, but there is a legitimate engineering explanation:

http://www.forposterityssake.ca/Navy/HM ... _CVL22.htm

Apparently, during builder's trials, excessive vibration was noted in the starboard shaft even though it was adequately supported with bearings (plummer blocks) throughout its length. The solution was to fit a four-bladed propeller on the shaft to dampen out over-all shaft harmonics. It worked!

I do have something to offer you in assistance though - I am working on a 1/96 Scale Bonnie. I received the hull/flight deck and island when I bought the project from a friend. I was not thrilled with the island as it came...so while I was 'down for the count' with C-19 a couple of weeks ago, I started on a 3D model of the island. I am (literally right now) printing Version 4 of it on my Filament printer at home, but I have uploaded an earlier version of the design to Thingiverse that you are welcome to download and print if you wish, in case it might save you some effort on your project?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5391778

If you're interested, I can share the latest version (with more detail added as of last night) and upload that if you'd like to use it.

I realize that the Bonnie and the Melbourne were not twins....merely sisters....so there will be some difference.
I'll note, that since I designed it in 1/96 scale, some elements are scaled to print in 1/96...and since I have a 0.4mm nozzle, parts of it are designed to print at 0.4 or 0.8mm thickness, which, if scaled down to 1/350 would not work on a filament printer. It might, however, work on a resin printer since they have a somewhat higher degree of resolution.

[NavyShooter]

There are 2 doors on the port side of her Island - here's a sample photo - looks like I've got the rear door a bit too far back though.

Any other corrections you can see that I should make (seriously asking - I'm looking to make this better!)

Do you have any close-ups that are better? I have some references that show that both of these doors are 'sliding' doors? Any chance you have a picture of them so I can make them look somewhat closer to real?