WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

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John W.
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by John W. »

lvsquarerigger wrote:I found this photo of the Sara but it clearly shows the stack vent that Chris had used on his Lex and I was duplicating to the best of my ability. I wonder why it wasn't incorporated on any of the models?
Jim -
Great progress.
Since you are obviously committed (maybe in more ways than one by the time the project is completed!), you might wish to check some photos of the splinter shields for the 5" guns before you go too far down the road. I, too, am working LEX (as well as HORNET on a different CASF thread) and have made a great effort to get as many pictures as possible. Check out the following photos on the Navsource link on the Home Page here, the pictures are in the LEX folder, under 'LEXINGTON in WW II'. Photos 80-G-16803, -16807, -16806, -7398, -76560 show the 5" splinter shields to be taller and shaped differently than those in the Trumpeter kit. There are also oval slots in the shields which I presume enable lines to be passed through them and to be secured to the bollards on the gun deck. Also, the shields continue on a perpendicular to the ship's centerline and between the separate 5" mounts for a few feet - not included in the Trump molding at all. I suspect these mods were done at PH when the other last minute changes were made before Coral Sea. It seems that many of the models I've seen of LEX during the Coral Sea time frame have stayed with the lower, and deck-edge mounted splinter shields as depicted in the kit.
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lvsquarerigger
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

John W. wrote:
lvsquarerigger wrote:I found this photo of the Sara but it clearly shows the stack vent that Chris had used on his Lex and I was duplicating to the best of my ability. I wonder why it wasn't incorporated on any of the models?
Jim -
Great progress.
Since you are obviously committed (maybe in more ways than one by the time the project is completed!), you might wish to check some photos of the splinter shields for the 5" guns before you go too far down the road. I, too, am working LEX (as well as HORNET on a different CASF thread) and have made a great effort to get as many pictures as possible. Check out the following photos on the Navsource link on the Home Page here, the pictures are in the LEX folder, under 'LEXINGTON in WW II'. Photos 80-G-16803, -16807, -16806, -7398, -76560 show the 5" splinter shields to be taller and shaped differently than those in the Trumpeter kit. There are also oval slots in the shields which I presume enable lines to be passed through them and to be secured to the bollards on the gun deck. Also, the shields continue on a perpendicular to the ship's centerline and between the separate 5" mounts for a few feet - not included in the Trump molding at all. I suspect these mods were done at PH when the other last minute changes were made before Coral Sea. It seems that many of the models I've seen of LEX during the Coral Sea time frame have stayed with the lower, and deck-edge mounted splinter shields as depicted in the kit.
I had looked at the photos there before and went back to recheck which ones you wre referring to. I went to Navsource and got their homepage. Clicked on Carriers and then on Lexington-CV2.

This brought up the construction and pre war years along with a few model pics at the bottom. Then clicked on the link under those to World war II. All those pics start with an N S (I presume navsource) prefix and none of the numbers you cite match anythng I can find.

Help please? :scratch:

Jim
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

lvsquarerigger wrote:
John W. wrote: Jim -
Great progress.
Since you are obviously committed (maybe in more ways than one by the time the project is completed!), you might wish to check some photos of the splinter shields for the 5" guns before you go too far down the road. I, too, am working LEX (as well as HORNET on a different CASF thread) and have made a great effort to get as many pictures as possible. Check out the following photos on the Navsource link on the Home Page here, the pictures are in the LEX folder, under 'LEXINGTON in WW II'. Photos 80-G-16803, -16807, -16806, -7398, -76560 show the 5" splinter shields to be taller and shaped differently than those in the Trumpeter kit. There are also oval slots in the shields which I presume enable lines to be passed through them and to be secured to the bollards on the gun deck. Also, the shields continue on a perpendicular to the ship's centerline and between the separate 5" mounts for a few feet - not included in the Trump molding at all. I suspect these mods were done at PH when the other last minute changes were made before Coral Sea. It seems that many of the models I've seen of LEX during the Coral Sea time frame have stayed with the lower, and deck-edge mounted splinter shields as depicted in the kit.
I had looked at the photos there before and went back to recheck which ones you wre referring to. I went to Navsource and got their homepage. Clicked on Carriers and then on Lexington-CV2.

This brought up the construction and pre war years along with a few model pics at the bottom. Then clicked on the link under those to World war II. All those pics start with an N S (I presume navsource) prefix and none of the numbers you cite match anythng I can find.

Help please? :scratch:

Jim

Was cruising around other links and found a Naval History one I had visited before but followed a new link to the Battle of the Coral Sea and found pics with numbers starting with 80 G but only found one in the 1600 series 80-F-1602.

Went looking in my folder of Lex pics and found 16803 and 16806 along with a couple of others that are not identified. I hadn't really paid attention to these as I'm waiting on the arrival of my 5" guns from L'Arsenal.

Seems like you've opened another can of worms. :big_grin:

Isn't it a ball tracking down all this stuff!

Thanks,

Jim
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

Here are all the pics I have of the 5" gun galleries. I've tagged the two from the series John mentioned and I had to resize the last one to get it under 150 so it would fit here.
Attachments
5" gun galleries 1
5" gun galleries 1
5" gun galleries 2
5" gun galleries 2
80-G-16803
80-G-16803
80-G-16806
80-G-16806
Looking back on the port side I think.
Looking back on the port side I think.
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by MartinJQuinn »

You realize the if the photographer turned slightly to the left in the top photo and took some pictures, all our questions about the shape of the island would be answered? Jeez...soooooo close, yet so far away.
Martin

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lvsquarerigger
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

MartinJQuinn wrote:You realize the if the photographer turned slightly to the left in the top photo and took some pictures, all our questions about the shape of the island would be answered? Jeez...soooooo close, yet so far away.
Just the thought I had as I looked at it. Or if the guy bending ove with his elbow in the way was back a step, stood up, or oh so many variables.
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by John W. »

Open a can of worms? Moi? No. I have had many folks point out details that have been useful to my efforts. I wanted to return the favor. What you do with them is your business.
I measured my LEX kit's 5" splinter shields at .070" high which translates to 24.5" in 1/350. In the top picture, you can see one of the sailors leaning on the splinter shield which seems to come up to his arm pit in height as he leans on it. This is in front of the gun (that is, to the port side of the ship). It looks as though that is the lowest part of the splinter shields at that, with some parts of the shields apparently another foot or so higher in between the guns. To my eyes, the top of those splinter shields are not a uniform height. Anyhow, I am 69" tall and my armpit is about 49 - 50" high. Those sailors in the pictures are probably close to my height. Ergo, the Trumpeter splinter shields are at best half the height shown in the Coral Sea pictures, and they are only mounted along the outer edge of the gun deck anyhow.
Oh yeah, and also note the columns that support the flight deck edge (top photo again) and located halfway between the gun mounts. They probably support fore / aft girders under the flight deck edges.
Not that you should lose any sleep over any of this. Even though you have taken a great deal of time to do a great job so far. Nope, don't worry about it.
Jes trying to help before you come to a decision point . .
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

John W. wrote:Open a can of worms? Moi? No. I have had many folks point out details that have been useful to my efforts. I wanted to return the favor. What you do with them is your business.
I measured my LEX kit's 5" splinter shields at .070" high which translates to 24.5" in 1/350. In the top picture, you can see one of the sailors leaning on the splinter shield which seems to come up to his arm pit in height as he leans on it. This is in front of the gun (that is, to the port side of the ship). It looks as though that is the lowest part of the splinter shields at that, with some parts of the shields apparently another foot or so higher in between the guns. To my eyes, the top of those splinter shields are not a uniform height. Anyhow, I am 69" tall and my armpit is about 49 - 50" high. Those sailors in the pictures are probably close to my height. Ergo, the Trumpeter splinter shields are at best half the height shown in the Coral Sea pictures, and they are only mounted along the outer edge of the gun deck anyhow.
Oh yeah, and also note the columns that support the flight deck edge (top photo again) and located halfway between the gun mounts. They probably support fore / aft girders under the flight deck edges.
Not that you should lose any sleep over any of this. Even though you have taken a great deal of time to do a great job so far. Nope, don't worry about it.
Jes trying to help before you come to a decision point . .
John you are a card besides being a good researcher. :big_grin: Taking your mearurements at face value I agree with you. Now to measure the ones on the stack and see how they fare.

That one picture does do a lot to throw Trumpeters' research into the trash. I wonder how they can do such a crummy job when so much is available? Do they just take a stab at it and say goodenuff????

Have you made any adjustments to your model and if so can you post any pics? It would probably go over well on the calling all ship fans Lex thread also.

Jim
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by John W. »

Jim -
In fairness to Trumpeter, I'm not sure how long the splinter shields were that high. I suspect they were raised at the same time the last work was done at PHNB. By the way, there are some good photos in the Wiper book showing at least some of the PHNB work being done: removing the 8" turrets for example. In my view, though, since the model was intended to be the Coral Sea fit, they could have done better. For those who are concerned about accuracy, we have at least some resources (such as this board) to make it as right as possible.
My love / hate, or perhaps more accurately stated 'stop / start', relationship with my LEX closely parallels my similar relationship with the HORNET. I only work on one ship at a given time, though I do put one aside for a period to work on another. After stalling out on HORNET trying to get the hull correct with several half hearted (or other half- portions of my anatomy), I picked up LEX and started out with a pretty good rhythm. I found a few things were off, including the splinter shields and the rudder, but they really aren't too hard to fix if done early. The main problem was the Flag Bridge which was changed during the PHNB work in March / April 1942. I had convinced myself I knew what the final result looked like, and built it accordingly. Still, I heard that Steve Wiper was doing an updated LEXINGTON photo book with pictures or documentation of the reconfigured bridge. I suspended work at that point because I knew that if I finished the LEX, the next day the book would come out and I'd be stuck. I returned to HORNET and have been going forward pretty well since then.
Here are some pictures of my version of the Flag Bridge. I note that Chris Smithers drew essentially the same conclusions as I did as to the shape of the Flag Bridge. There are pictures of SARA with a framework in the same area which was largely pipe and canvas or some similar material. I concluded that much like the simple shapes for the 1.1" splinter shields in the areas where the 8" turrets were removed, the same approach was used on the Flag Bridge for wartime expediency: lots of flat plates which could be placed and welded in a minimum of time. Note that my structure is incomplete, currently lacking the corrected details such as the correct positions for the searchlight platforms. I still have some cleanup work to do as well to fix a couple of flaws, but you get the general idea.
Picture 001.jpg
Picture 007.jpg
This photo shows that I have not yet changed the splinter shield height and size, but I will do so before attaching the flight deck. As you can see, my solution to the problem of fit of the wooden deck is to laminate 1/8" basswood to the underside of the FD and allow the basswood to force the hull straight. You can see that I have done some carving on the basswood so that it conforms to the hull flare. I also took the top off the boat pockets so I could detail them properly . I glued the bottoms of the pockets in place to add some rigidity to the hull sides so I could get the flight deck to fit square and tight before proceeding. If you look closely, you will see that I chose to expand the lower hull by cutting it lengthwise for the middle half of its length, then splicing in some (white) strip plastic strip to force the bottom of the hull outwards to meet the upper hull. Doing this also shortened the lower hull length slightly which also brought it into closer agreement with the upper hull length.
Picture 012.jpg
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

Thansk for the pics and info. I was off and about all day yesterday so did not see your stuff until just now, the wee hours of Sunday. Have a friend coming over this afternoon to share some thoughts on different ships, he has a video on the CHarles W. Morgan which I am also working on, so it will be interesting to see what new insights, if any, come up.

My camera is in New Orleans with my daughter at her company convention, and no the pics she brings back are not for sharing here :big_grin: , but will add some more when it returns soon.

I've been fussing with the fit of the hulll right at the bow as there was still a slight overhang in a 3 inch area or so and I have been filling, sanding, filling, sanding, and stilll not quite happy with it.

Jim
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by John W. »

Jim -
Another picture useful to study for the splinter shield height is 80-G-7411 which shows the starboard quarter of LEX as she's being abandoned. The oval slot in the splinter shield through which the lines are passed to the bollards on the gun deck is clearly visible.
By the way, you can Google that photograph number (and any of the others) and it will pop up - usually from several sites. Some sites use their own numbering schemes in addition to the official photo number.
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

John W. wrote:Jim -
Another picture useful to study for the splinter shield height is 80-G-7411 which shows the starboard quarter of LEX as she's being abandoned. The oval slot in the splinter shield through which the lines are passed to the bollards on the gun deck is clearly visible.
By the way, you can Google that photograph number (and any of the others) and it will pop up - usually from several sites. Some sites use their own numbering schemes in addition to the official photo number.
Thanks, I'll do that.

Jim
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

In my roamings I came across a new Lex kit soon to be offered by New Yankkee. They have a description and picture but no price or release date yet. What intrigued me was the pic of their completed model.

The different bridges are totally different from any other rendition I have seen. Also some of the detailing on the stack is different.

Their rendition of the splintershielding on the 5" gun tubs is also different though not quite accurate according to a few of the photos I've seen of them during the battle .

I downloaded the pic so I could enlarge it and look more closely at details. You might also enjoy this.

http://www.yankeemodelworks.com/35106_Lexington.htm

Jim
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

lvsquarerigger wrote:In my roamings I came across a new Lex kit soon to be offered by New Yankkee. They have a description and picture but no price or release date yet. What intrigued me was the pic of their completed model.

The different bridges are totally different from any other rendition I have seen. Also some of the detailing on the stack is different.

Their rendition of the splintershielding on the 5" gun tubs is also different though not quite accurate according to a few of the photos I've seen of them during the battle .

I downloaded the pic so I could enlarge it and look more closely at details. You might also enjoy this.

http://www.yankeemodelworks.com/35106_Lexington.htm

Jim
martin says this kit has been out since '02 and it was a nice build. SO much for up to date website info. :big_grin:
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by John W. »

Martin is correct, of course. This resin kit preceded Trumpeter's, but I suspect the sales suffered when the plastic kit hit the market at much lower price. Same company produces backdate kit with 8" turrets et al for an earlier prewar / early war LEX fit.
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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by lvsquarerigger »

Well my 5" and quad mount guns from L'Arsenal came in today and I looked at them to see what it will take to assemble them. Does anyone have a mini-me hanging out somewhere? That PE stuff is TIIIIINY! Oh well, I guess that's what magnifiers are for anyway. :smallsmile: It will definitely be an adventure into new worlds for me.

Jim
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by smithec »

lvsquarerigger wrote:The radar room is way off. Chris shortened and narrowed his but in the pics I saw it did seem shorter but not narrower so I just shortened it. Glued it up and let it sit overnight. The cut the curve off the back and recurved it to fit. Haven't yet filled the windows.

I was browsing photos and found some of the reason for the discrepancy. It seems earlier on the Lex did have a big room with lots of windows on the funnel. But sometime between "38 and Oct. "41 that changed as seen it the two bottom pics.
The 'big room' on the front of the stack was the Pri Fly - where the air group was managed from. It was actually two decks high, open at the rear on either side, top deck no roof, just a windshield. The whole caboose was removed and replaced with the samll radar shack.
Regards, Chris

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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by smithec »

lvsquarerigger wrote:Well my 5" and quad mount guns from L'Arsenal came in today and I looked at them to see what it will take to assemble them. Does anyone have a mini-me hanging out somewhere? That PE stuff is TIIIIINY! Oh well, I guess that's what magnifiers are for anyway. :smallsmile: It will definitely be an adventure into new worlds for me.

Jim
The L'Arsenal 5-inch mounts are great. Not so the 1.1-inch mounts. There isn't enough breech length in them and the mounts themselves are little, if anything, better than the mounts that come with the kit. I chucked my L'Arsenal 1.1-inch mounts away in disgust. Instead I used WEM's PE set and the kit barrels.
Regards, Chris

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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by smithec »

lvsquarerigger wrote:The top is next. Chris says there was a vent below the top and he detailed how he provided that by raising, cutting, and it seemed like a lot of work for nothing to me. I used a miter saw to cut down at both ends and on both sides. I ran masking tape from front to back and then used a cordless dremel to cut it out. It wasn't perfectly straight but by staying to the waste side it only needed a little filing to clean up.
Disagree! It was easy just to sand down the top of the stack by the depth of the vent, put a couple of plastic card fillers in at either end and shape them to the curve of the stack. No cutting, no danger of damaging the stack.
Regards, Chris

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Re: WIP - 1/350 USS Lexington (CV-2)

Post by smithec »

lvsquarerigger wrote:Here are all the pics I have of the 5" gun galleries. I've tagged the two from the series John mentioned and I had to resize the last one to get it under 150 so it would fit here.
I've always known I never got my head quite right around the 5-inch splinter shielding on my model - the INTERIOR, stepped shielding between the guns themselves. These pictures could really help deduce what was done. I haven't seen all of them before and they provide a great deal more information. Go for it Jim.
Regards, Chris

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