Pontosmodel 1/200 Bismarck Detail Up Set

[warreni]

I would like to point out that this thread is for the Pontos Detail set. Not the "What is wrong with Trumpeter's 1/200 kit". There are other threads that are better suited for that please.

Hear hear. If you don't like it don't buy it easy as that. A company has the guts to bring out a large scale Bismarck and all you can do is whinge and complain!

[Mclem53]

My sentiments exactly. I'v been building models since I was 5 and at 60 I've seen lots of companies make great models and quite a few horrible ones. But when I look at Trumpeters Bismarck all I see is exceptional design and execution. Is it perfect? probably no,but as far as I'm concerned the good outweigh the bad in this model.

Now my impression of Trumpeter has been that they tend to sacrifice on areas of a model so that they can get their ambitious release schedule delivered. Nobody puts out more plastic kits out than Trumpeter as far as I can see. Being an aircraft guy I always look at the cockpit first and that is usually where I see shortcuts. But The Bismarck to me is just amazing at the amount and quality of detail they have provided us. Are there things left out....oh it's been pointed out about issues with the hull and the keel area. Really,who's going to be looking at the bottom of the ship in a display case when there is so much to admire above the waterline?

Ok,our friends at Pontos have looked at the kit and said we can do better,and they did,just a beautiful detail set at a reasonable price. I don't know about you but I don't want to spend a year building a scale model,I have too many to build on the shelves. The bismarck and the Pontos set is good enough for me.

The rest of the.01%ers.....good luck with getting your wishes out of the manufacturers because although they aim to please they run a business and making a profit off .01% of a modeling demographic will mean a very large price for what you want.

[Pete_G]

Kim,

I just wanted to say thank you.

My Pontos Bismarck set arrived today courtesy of White Ensign Models and it's superb

It even fits snugly inside the Trumpeter Bismarck model box within the hull compartment

I must also say, this is amazing value when a deck for the 1/200 Yamato from MKI costs $70 alone.

Well done.

Pete

[Pete_G]

Man do you guys have AMS really bad. I can understand wanting to improve on what the kit comes with but 99.9% of the people out there would be more than happy with the Trumpeter kit and the Pontos update kit,and they might not use everything that comes in the update kit because they don't think it warrants all the tedious work sanding off moulded in detail and replacing it.

Yes there are inaccuracies built into all models but when you are finished and the models under the display case you are the only one that will know the difference between what the kit came from the manufacturer and the way you finished it. Quite honestlyI think the Trumpeter kit by its self is a magnificent work of engineering. The slide mould technology of today has allowed an amazing amount of crisp detail to be included with fewer parts than any time in the history of model building. Could it be better? Probably,but at what cost?

I want to thank Mr. Kim at Pontos for producing such a beautiful detail set. I've started on my Bismarck and the photo-etch parts so far have fit just about perfect. What he has provided us with is a real bargain for the price.

Gotta disagree.

The Trumpeter kit is so full of errors that it actually stinks when the box is opened by someone familiar with the real ship. Certainly the detail is crisp, but too many details are warped, missing or flat out wrong. If you want to build a toy Bismarck to float around the local pond or more likely start to build but then get frustrated and throw the box in your basement it's perfect, but for those with higher aspirations it just doesn't pass muster OOTB.

I really do love the big 1/200 scale warship kits; finally I can build a model ship that looks like it belongs in a museum without going through the hassle of scratchbuilding and/or buying thousands of detail parts individually. I am very thankful for the many aftermarket companies like Pontos making it easier for people like me to do that!

BTW, I didn't get the Pontos Bismarck set but I did get a modern USS Iowa set... it's "top shelf" stuff, let me tell ya! I would love to see that level of quality bumped up to 1/200 scale and applied to the Bismarck super-set and I know my wallet couldn't resist!

I think you are not giving the kit or the manufacturer their due credit for having the balls to produce this fine piece of work. It is a very very good effort by Trumpeter and in the main, the build is close enough to represent the appearance of the ship as she was in 1941.

Here are some pictures taken from another site (http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/phpBB3/view ... f=3&t=2250) and full credit to Henrik for this achievement which shows just what is possible right out of the box with very little aftermarket.

Now take Henrik's model and sort the hull out which faults are well documented and then add Kim's basic and soon to be released advanced set and I think you will have a model and a piece of art that most would aspire to but only few can achieve.

Here's to those who are prepared to give it a go

Well done Trumpeter and Ponto's.

[Pete_G]

And one more because the limit was 10 images!

[alang]

Hi Mr Kim
As l have said on several other occasions l feel your kits are the best for value and detail. However l have found several questions and or mistakes in the the instructions on this Bismarck set with a couple of questions from a few days ago still unanswered.
In addition to these outstanding questions PLEASE can we have more guidance on all the stairs parts 681 -697 i.e where do they go???????
I believe l have found where several of them should be positioned by comparing with the Trumpeter ones but surely we should not have to keep looking and comparing your etch with the Trumpeter ones to find locations?
One of the few that you do guide where to use l find and believe is the wrong part number you state part number 688 but if l use this it would be to short so should this be 689?

Please, Please , Please can we have more guidance.

Many Thanks in advance.

Alan

[Dietrich]

The Pontos set is very good, no doubt about that. However, if one does not have a lot ( and I mean a LOT) of pictures, informations, and research (as well as a very good loupe), a great part of the supplied PE will go unused. Kim even admitted that there are parts supplied which are not shown on the "instructions!". This is already tough without the many mistakes in numbering on the instructions. Prepare to spend a lot of time to find the right parts and prepare to never find some of them!

That said, the set is still worth the money and the additional time. But there is no reason on earth why any company should not supply the paying customer with a decent set of instructions instead of a puzzle. I rather spend my time building than searching.

Dietrich

PS: regarding the Trumpeter set I am very happy. it has never bothered me if a turret is 2 mm out of position because I never measured. Looking forward to the one coming!

PPS: after reading the post below I need to add that some of the turned brass was also missing, some was bent, and no dry transfers at all! But I got the life savers! Yesterday I tried to assemble the 20 mm Flak with the instructions given ... No chance at all!

[Seemann]

Hello, everybody,

I'm a complete newbie here, but I'm watching this thread for quite a long time. There was no need to add up to this discussion until now, so let me drop my five cents in.
I have received my Pontos Bismarck set abaut a week ago. This it the first set of Pontos I am not satisfied with (and this is the fourth set of Pontos detail-ups that I own). Partially, I have to be "thankful" to some of You, guys, here. The ones, who were frustrated by delay of release, constantly treading on Pontos with "c'mon, when do I this stuff ready", "ooh, I can't wait to put my hands on it, but could You please add this staff and that little thingie as well" and stuff like that.
What do we have as a result? Mistakes in assembly manual? Mhm. Completely omitted parts in manual? Aha, right... I see here new rising wave of whining, addressing these problems.
I was neither impatient to get this set on the day of release, nor I am going to use it for a couple of years - as probly many of You, I've bought to have it in stash, since it was already available and You never know, when the production ceases. Unlike three previous sets for Warspite, Dreadnought and Sevastopol, this set was shot out in a hurry, and I strongly suspect that Pontos was pressed to do so by modelling community. Yes, maybe their design time estimate was wrong, but hey, this is not another Bf-109, this is Bismarck battleship in 200th scale, which threw Pontos into, I would say, uncharted waters with the volumes of design involved.
What I particularly have as a consequences of this rush is partially missing parts/partially damaged turned brass. I've bought my set from LuckyModel and they are not to be blamed - everything was sealed "from the factory", parts that could be damaged because of shipping are intact - all PE and decks are OK.
Dry transfer is absent completely;
105mm older type 31 flak - all 8 barrels are missing;
All life tubes are missing;
Packaging problem: smallest turned brass barrels (20mm ones) for some reason (hurry, hurry!) were put together with mighty 380mm main artillery. The result is pretty sad - two thirds of all small flak are bent and need to be replaced (some are bent even at 90 degrees, they wrapped around the main artillery barrels).
Maybe I'm just "lucky", but I strongly advice to spend two hours (that's what it took for me to check all the contents of set) on checking, if Your set is OK.

Of course, the set is great. Of course "not satisfied" is only because of the above mentioned things. I hope, that now somebody will contact me from Pontos, since I'm waiting for reply to e-mail,
describing these problems for a week already. (Yes, Mr. Kim?)

As for omitted parts in the manual - I think, You rather have to make corrections to original PDF's manual, so that the errors and omissions were corrected there, instead of looking at the manual and then at the list of corrections in the end - because You have to do this check at every step then.
And one more thing - even if You see, that the promised time is up, project like these is too huge to evaluate it properly (maybe, the second set in 200th scale will be estimated more precisely - You have the power to say: "OK, folks: if you want to have decent set - just wait, it is worth waiting." Those, who know Your attention to detail - will wait. Those, who not - will buy somebody else's set (and after your set is released and reviewed - they will be either biting their elbows, or quietly buying Your set as well).
Hope, this was a good lesson on hurrying both for manufacturer and for those, who was constantly pushing them to release the product which was slightly raw.

And yes, Mr. Kim, despite all above said - thank You and Your colleagues for Your splendid work on this set.

[Pontosmodel]

Hi all
Just a small heads up on a wrong part number quoted on instructions.
Page 5 top left hand side - Drill guides - part number 711 should read 732 and 712 should be 731.
Also has anybody else found that there are not enough part number 355 - only 24 supplied but 26 needed ??? 22 on main breakwater (if thats the correct name?) and extra two each side needed on small breakwater set further back.

Keep building.

Alan

Hi Mr Kim
As l have said on several other occasions l feel your kits are the best for value and detail. However l have found several questions and or mistakes in the the instructions on this Bismarck set with a couple of questions from a few days ago still unanswered.
In addition to these outstanding questions PLEASE can we have more guidance on all the stairs parts 681 -697 i.e where do they go???????
I believe l have found where several of them should be positioned by comparing with the Trumpeter ones but surely we should not have to keep looking and comparing your etch with the Trumpeter ones to find locations?
One of the few that you do guide where to use l find and believe is the wrong part number you state part number 688 but if l use this it would be to short so should this be 689?

Please, Please , Please can we have more guidance.

Many Thanks in advance.

Alan

Alan,
355 Breakwater supporter,
26 is right. For the laid position, you can use 355 fully but for the standing position please cut and sprit the 355 with two parts, if you would apply all supporter as laid position, please email to us we will ship two extra 355 parts.

As for the Drill guides, you are also right, 712->731 and 711->732 on the structure.
Original 712and 711 are described on the each side of 150mm gun turret.

As for the stair location, we added some more extra and various size, but we will try to arrange the almost locations soon though some are described on the manual.

Thank you

Kim

[Pontosmodel]

The Pontos set is very good, no doubt about that. However, if one does not have a lot ( and I mean a LOT) of pictures, informations, and research (as well as a very good loupe), a great part of the supplied PE will go unused. Kim even admitted that there are parts supplied which are not shown on the "instructions!". This is already tough without the many mistakes in numbering on the instructions. Prepare to spend a lot of time to find the right parts and prepare to never find some of them!

That said, the set is still worth the money and the additional time. But there is no reason on earth why any company should not supply the paying customer with a decent set of instructions instead of a puzzle. I rather spend my time building than searching.

Dietrich

PS: regarding the Trumpeter set I am very happy. it has never bothered me if a turret is 2 mm out of position because I never measured. Looking forward to the one coming!

PPS: after reading the post below I need to add that some of the turned brass was also missing, some was bent, and no dry transfers at all! But I got the life savers! Yesterday I tried to assemble the 20 mm Flak with the instructions given ... No chance at all!

Dietrich,
I am sorry our instruction manual shows all we've designed rightly.
But we will try to do our best if you can't solve these puzzles instantly.
Also some more corrected instruction can be found on our website.

Thank you
Kim

[Pontosmodel]

Hello, everybody,

I'm a complete newbie here, but I'm watching this thread for quite a long time. There was no need to add up to this discussion until now, so let me drop my five cents in.
I have received my Pontos Bismarck set abaut a week ago. This it the first set of Pontos I am not satisfied with (and this is the fourth set of Pontos detail-ups that I own). Partially, I have to be "thankful" to some of You, guys, here. The ones, who were frustrated by delay of release, constantly treading on Pontos with "c'mon, when do I this stuff ready", "ooh, I can't wait to put my hands on it, but could You please add this staff and that little thingie as well" and stuff like that.
What do we have as a result? Mistakes in assembly manual? Mhm. Completely omitted parts in manual? Aha, right... I see here new rising wave of whining, addressing these problems.
I was neither impatient to get this set on the day of release, nor I am going to use it for a couple of years - as probly many of You, I've bought to have it in stash, since it was already available and You never know, when the production ceases. Unlike three previous sets for Warspite, Dreadnought and Sevastopol, this set was shot out in a hurry, and I strongly suspect that Pontos was pressed to do so by modelling community. Yes, maybe their design time estimate was wrong, but hey, this is not another Bf-109, this is Bismarck battleship in 200th scale, which threw Pontos into, I would say, uncharted waters with the volumes of design involved.
What I particularly have as a consequences of this rush is partially missing parts/partially damaged turned brass. I've bought my set from LuckyModel and they are not to be blamed - everything was sealed "from the factory", parts that could be damaged because of shipping are intact - all PE and decks are OK.
Dry transfer is absent completely;
105mm older type 31 flak - all 8 barrels are missing;
All life tubes are missing;
Packaging problem: smallest turned brass barrels (20mm ones) for some reason (hurry, hurry!) were put together with mighty 380mm main artillery. The result is pretty sad - two thirds of all small flak are bent and need to be replaced (some are bent even at 90 degrees, they wrapped around the main artillery barrels).
Maybe I'm just "lucky", but I strongly advice to spend two hours (that's what it took for me to check all the contents of set) on checking, if Your set is OK.

Of course, the set is great. Of course "not satisfied" is only because of the above mentioned things. I hope, that now somebody will contact me from Pontos, since I'm waiting for reply to e-mail,
describing these problems for a week already. (Yes, Mr. Kim?)

As for omitted parts in the manual - I think, You rather have to make corrections to original PDF's manual, so that the errors and omissions were corrected there, instead of looking at the manual and then at the list of corrections in the end - because You have to do this check at every step then.
And one more thing - even if You see, that the promised time is up, project like these is too huge to evaluate it properly (maybe, the second set in 200th scale will be estimated more precisely - You have the power to say: "OK, folks: if you want to have decent set - just wait, it is worth waiting." Those, who know Your attention to detail - will wait. Those, who not - will buy somebody else's set (and after your set is released and reviewed - they will be either biting their elbows, or quietly buying Your set as well).
Hope, this was a good lesson on hurrying both for manufacturer and for those, who was constantly pushing them to release the product which was slightly raw.

And yes, Mr. Kim, despite all above said - thank You and Your colleagues for Your splendid work on this set.

Seamann,
Can you send email again to me? (on the email subject please note "to Kim".
All missed or broken parts have been sent rightly.
And we've changed the Barrel packing (because 20mm barels with 380mm tend to be bent)

Thank you
Kim

[Channell]

And one more because the limit was 10 images!

Here I go messing up the thread subject again but I hear ya Pete. It's not total garbage as-is and is good base for a show-stopping superdetailed Bismarck.

I also did the 1/200 Arizona as an "out of the box" build and like your example it looks great, provided you don't know what the AZ's hull should be shaped like and look at it from a certain distance.

On my Bismarck I am trying for something that looks realistic even when looked at very closely; that's where the kit really breaks down. Molded on stuff ends up creating that dreaded "toy" look... it's not so bad with smaller scales but the large scale of this kit really augments the effect.

I've said it a couple of times but I would REALLY love PE replacement bulkheads with open portholes/vents/doors and etched conduit lines for this kit!!! Please make them Pontos and I will be the first customer in line for them!!!

[Pontosmodel]

Some News for this set.
From next week we would start to design "Advanced Set" though already some of these already had been done during last Basic set.

And one more news, we would release
20001WD1 1/200 Bismarck Woodendeck set.
Retail price is 50USD.
This set consists of Wooden deck and following one deck decoration PE fret(192*120mm).

The wooden deck is same deck with the one in the our 23001F1 detail set.

Another product is 22001F1 1/200 Bismarck detail set basic (without Wooden deck). Retail price is 150USD.
This is practically same set as 23001F1 but no wooden deck.
This set is for the customer who would not use Wooden deck or who already has our 20001WD1 or other wooden deck material sources.

These two products(20001WD1 and 22001F1) can be shipped from 9th July to our dealers.
I think Brandon will open new order code of these soon for preorder.

Thank you
Kim

P.S. This post can be edited with more information....

[acm411]

I need help on the 1/200 Bismarck detail set by Pontos. I'm currently working on the four 15" main turrets. Can anyone explain the difference between the the molded resin blast bags for them? The parts are listed in the instructions as part "J1", 4 each and "J2", also 4 each. I can't see the difference between J1 and J2. Does it matter? If they are the same, why list them under different part numbers. Thank you

[Pontosmodel]

I need help on the 1/200 Bismarck detail set by Pontos. I'm currently working on the four 15" main turrets. Can anyone explain the difference between the the molded resin blast bags for them? The parts are listed in the instructions as part "J1", 4 each and "J2", also 4 each. I can't see the difference between J1 and J2. Does it matter? If they are the same, why list them under different part numbers. Thank you

Numbering(J1/J2) is just for noticing there are two shapes for left and right sides (yep port and starbd. sides). This is baecause the front face of turret is not flat but have a slight angle.

Thank you
Keumho Kim

[Krupp Steel]

I just received my set and I must say its fantastic for the money spent !
However, the advertised pictures for the kit show rifleling grooves in the main barrels. The barrel faces are as pictured but there is no rifleling ? The bores are smooth. Is this the case with everyone else ?
Again the kit is awesome. Best bang for the buck!

[Pontosmodel]

I just received my set and I must say its fantastic for the money spent !
However, the advertised pictures for the kit show rifleling grooves in the main barrels. The barrel faces are as pictured but there is no rifleling ? The bores are smooth. Is this the case with everyone else ?
Again the kit is awesome. Best bang for the buck!

All 100% of our 380mm barrels have rifles surely.
But there may be small scraps around the hole. So in this case you can remove these scraps as with thooth brush.
To notice this grrove by human eyes is very hard. so you may use magnifier to check this.

Thank you
Kim

[Krupp Steel]

I'll inspect them closer....but your more than likely correct. I used my 50 something eye balling and expected to see them as clear as the pics.

[Paul2660]

At first I thought the groves on my were not there however with a loupe you can see them. Nice detail overall. At first glance I am seeing a bit of confusion on the main cranes with supplied pictures.

Paul

[Pontosmodel]

At first I thought the groves on my were not there however with a loupe you can see them. Nice detail overall. At first glance I am seeing a bit of confusion on the main cranes with supplied pictures.

Paul

As for the Crane, we've tried to research and understand the mechanism of German Crane.
So you may be to see some photos of the real crane for the right angle and rotating location along the catapult/Arado state etc.

Thank you
Kim