Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[wojtekp90]

Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?

I would recommend the book 'Iowa Class Battleships' by Robert F. Sumrall, https://www.amazon.com/Iowa-Class-Battl ... 0870212982
This book contains a large section on drawings, dimensions andsoforth. In my view the first reference Bible when modelling any of these ships, in the entire period of their life.

[BB62vet]

wojtekp90 wrote:

Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?

In addition to Maarten's reply, I would add that the same inherent hull problems still exist in the kit. There are available online the 1982 Booklet of General Plans of NEW JERSEY which show the modernization done to that particular ship. IOWA will NOT be the same, but similar. The BoGF can be printed out at 0.96% for a 1/200 scale plan of the ship. Rule of thumb: BoGPs are NOT how the ship was actually built but how is was envisioned to be (modernized) constructed.

BoGPs do not contain dimensions or other engineering design properties that would be found on actual drawings/plans, etc.

Using this kit would probably end up being more scratchbuilding than I had to do when I kit-bashed my NEW JERSEY (1968-69) model. Most of the superstructure would be modified.

Hope this helps,

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

BoGPs do not contain dimensions or other engineering design properties that would be found on actual drawings/plans, etc.

BB62vet is right, BUT:

As the frame locations are shown on the drawings in these BoGPs, and the frame distance is known (usually 4 ft or 48" throughout in USN battleships) it is very easy to accurately enlarge these drawings to the size/scale you want them. How do I know this distance? In the first pages of the BoGP the 'distance between perpendiculars' is given as 860 ft, in the drawings you can find that the aft perpendicular (rudder axis) is at frame 215 (the forward perpendicular is at frame 0). Divide 860 by 215 = 4 ft!

Just use a predefined grid in your drawing tool (I use CorelDraw) and align the frames with this grid. In your case the grid distance should be 0.24" (48"/200) for a an Iowa class battleship in 1:200 scale. Then stretch the drawing so that all frames match with the grid along the entire hull length. You'll find this procedure is VERY accurate.

BTW: by identifying the location of e.g. a bulkhead with its frame number, you can also calculate its distance to other locations (e.g. a turret) in the ship. And that's EXACT. Find the distance in frames, then multiply by 4, then divide by the desired scale, e.g. 1/200.

Note: 4 ft seems to be a sort of standard in the USN for BBs and Carriers, other ships though may have different frame distances, so look closely what's needed in your case.

[chuck]

Hello I have a question.
A colleague owns Iowa on a scale of 1/200 I have a question whether it can be converted into versions after modernization after 1980?
Where can the original dimensions of the superstructure be found?

I assume you mean the 1/200 Iowa kit from trumpeter. If you intend to use the original superstructure of the basis and core of the new superstructure, then keep in mind the dimension of trumoeter�s original superstructure is not entirely accurate, and different parts of the superstructure does not align completely with each other in accordance to how they do so on the real ship. So in your scratch building you will need to consider how the new built parts will align with existing parts of the trumpeter superstructure you intend to keep.

[Fliger747]

I upgraded and converted a 1:192 wooden model that I had built some 40 plus years earlier to a modern version of the Missouri. A lot more work than one might imagine. at least with a wooden model a lot easier to eliminate "stuff" such as gun tubs and other surgeries.

One thing that was invaluable was a couple of trips to the ship itself and taking of hundreds of photographs.

For the most part a scratch project, many fun challenges! Enjoy!

[steinerman]

Hi Folks,

Some time ago on this thread a fellow posted a page out of a book that had the colors of various compressed gas tanks. If I remember right the tanks were pretty much all black with the tops painted different colors to identify the gas inside. This picture is no longer available due to Photobucket's fiasco.

Is there anybody out there who might possibly have saved a copy of this photo and could either post it here or PM it to me. I thought I kept a copy but I can't find it anywhere.

Thanks,

Larry

[bigjimslade]

Hi Folks,

Some time ago on this thread a fellow posted a page out of a book that had the colors of various compressed gas tanks. If I remember right the tanks were pretty much all black with the tops painted different colors to identify the gas inside. This picture is no longer available due to Photobucket's fiasco.

Is there anybody out there who might possibly have saved a copy of this photo and could either post it here or PM it to me. I thought I kept a copy but I can't find it anywhere.

You're looking for "MIL-STD-101B". Put that into DuckDuckGo and you'll get a lot of download locations.

[steinerman]

This MIL-STD is current. I'm looking for the color identification back in 1944.

[steinerman]

Found it!! This was what I was looking for!

[chuck]

I understand the shorter fatter cylinders are acetylene. I still never found any source of information that say exactly what type of gas are in the longer cylinders. I imagine many of them would be oxygen to use with acetylene for welding and cutting. But the gas ratio used of oxyacetylene welding is roughly 1 to 1, so on the Missouri there should be roughly one long oxygen cylinder for each fat acetylene cylinder if they are under similar pressures. Clearly there are far more long skinny cylinders than short fat ones. So what gas to those extra long skinny cylinders contain?

[bigjimslade]

So what gas to those extra long skinny cylinders contain?

I have a pile of blueprints for gas cylinder storage for different gas types from the 1980s. I never looked closely but will have to go through to see what they have.

I know there is oxygen, helium, acetylene, nitrogen. Probably others as well.

[steinerman]

Another question, guys. What color were the round life preservers on the Iowa class ships during WWII?

[Fliger747]

Good question as the floats aboard battleships of the period typically were painted to match the camouflage scheme. Today the life rings are white.

[bigjimslade]

So what gas to those extra long skinny cylinders contain?

I have a pile of blueprints for gas cylinder storage for different gas types from the 1980s. I never looked closely but will have to go through to see what they have.

I know there is oxygen, helium, acetylene, nitrogen. Probably others as well.

I found CO2 and "medical gas" as well.

The plans for the Acetylene and Oxygen tank racks are identical so the cylinders would have to be the same size for both.

[chuck]

The floating dry dock plans show acetylene cylinders were distinctly different from oxygen cylinders, acetylene cylinders being short and fat.

I think this may even be some kind of international standard during the WWII era. There are photos of tank repair depots on the eastern front that showed both the Russians and Germans used a tall skinny cylinder and a short fat cylinder in their portable oxyacetylene welding and cutting equipment.

[bigjimslade]

The floating dry dock plans show acetylene cylinders were distinctly different from oxygen cylinders, acetylene cylinders being short and fat.

The answer I got from asking around was the gas cylinders were gas cylinders. The same physical cylinders were used for all types of non-corrosive gases. The only difference was in the markings. Gas cylinders came (and still come) in various sizes. There is a 12" x 29" cylinder in use as well as a 12" x 41" cylinder.

[ModelMonkey]

The photo below shows cylinders of two different sizes stored aboard ship in the racks mentioned by Jim. Sets of 3D-printed cylinders of both sizes are available in 1/200 scale and larger.

Below the photo are tables of common cylinder sizes. The first table shows generic, high-pressure cylinders. The other tables are specific to the type of gas stored in them (acetylene, propylene and propane, etc.). Model Monkey 3D-printed cylinders are based on dimensions taken from these tables.

[bigjimslade]

Hopefully, this will be my last ever hull model, having refined this iteratively over several years.

This is based on the molded lines. I am testing the practicability of doing a plated version. First the bottom. Every kit I have seen has FUed this. The docking keel is likely not to be there or will be way too short. The twin keels are integral part of the hull and are not "skegs" attached to the hull structure. THe plan NEVER refer to them as skegs. Note the curve of the half siding at the bottom and how it compares with kits.

Also note the half siding at the stern that also tends to disappear in kits.

The plating does not follow the knuckle lines so the knuckles are less prominent on the ships.

At the side, the profiles in the area at the right are lines above the heel curves. Aft of that there is a transition where the line starts to become a V, creating knuckles at the vertex of the V and at the bottom of the V where the hull is curve.

At you move aft. the lines of the V transition to curves. Again, the hull plating does not follow these knuckles.

[bigjimslade]

Some pictures of the New Jersey from off the tour. Actually this first picture is on the tour. This is one of the three projectile hoists in the lower flat of turret two. Note the cylinder that is used to jack the projectiles up through the hoist and the pipe with fluid to drive the cylinder.

Moving to the upper projectile flat, this is the view into the hoist. Note the pawl at the left attached to the hoist tube. Further down to the right is a pawl attached to the moveable pawl carrier. The piston drives the pawl carrier upwards. That pushes the projectile past the next fixed pawl, which retracts as the projectile goes by then springs back once the projectile goes past so the projectile cannot go back down. The operator lowers the cylinder and the pawl carrier. It's pawls retract as they go downward past projectiles then spring outward once below them.

The operator repeats that cycle five times to get a projectile from the lower flat into the cradle in the gun chamber.

There can be five projectiles in the hoist and and one in the cradle. The system disengages when there is a projectile in the cradle. The official projectile storage count of 1,264 includes five projectiles in each hoist.

When the turrets were redesigned after the original design would not fit on the ship, books say it produced a cramped layout. You would not believe how cramped. I wish I had taken more picture crawling through but this the level just below where the gun crew stands. You have to crawl on your knees. The ladder in the background leads to the center gun chamber.

This shows where the picture was taken. The plan shows a ladder immediately in front but it was not there.

This is the powder handling level taken from the lower storage level. The lower storage level forms a balcony so the two-story room feels like the most spacious on the ship (there are also crew quarters on the 3d deck forward where the rising bow also creates very high overheads).

This is where the class A belt armor meets the lower class B tier. The plate that is scalloped at the bottom is the backing bulkhead that supports the class A armor. That is attached to the bulkhead with bolts (the two round covers are examples). There is about an inch between the backing bulkhead and the class A armor. The gap is filled with concrete.

The backing bulkhead overlaps the class B armor and is welded to it along the scalloped edge. This gives a larger welding surface.

Below this weld joint, the class B belt armor forms Torpedo Bulkhead 3. Above the joint. the backing bulkhead forms the rest of the Torpedo Bulkhead.